Do you believe in open sparring sessions

[shihansmurf]

There is an Okinawan kenpo school here in town that my school does open sparring with. We meet at thier school as the YMCA that I teach out of requires all of our students to be members.

We also get together a TKD school as well as one of the MMA gyms here in town.

I enjoy having my students get the opportunity to work with other people. I am not fond of the "random person walking in off the street" coming in and sparring my students. Never know what you're going to get.

Mark

 

[MJS]

There is an Okinawan kenpo school here in town that my school does open sparring with. We meet at thier school as the YMCA that I teach out of requires all of our students to be members.

We also get together a TKD school as well as one of the MMA gyms here in town.

I enjoy having my students get the opportunity to work with other people. I am not fond of the "random person walking in off the street" coming in a sparring my students. Never know what you're going to get.

Mark

Agreed Mark. Am I safe to assume that your relationship with said schools is a good one? As for the random guy off the street....to train, ie: try to school out....probably not the best idea...lol. I know some schools have a mat fee, so if someone was in the area, and wanted to train, they could pay a small fee, and train for the time they were in the area. I dont see anything wrong with that, as long as they're not there to cause issues.

 

[jasonbrinn]

First, I'm not going to roll with you. So I already won.
Second, even if I was going to roll, I wouldn't roll with someone who has been documented as a fraud with extensive information.
Thirdly, even though I have little respect for Bullshido and their grade school mentality, their research here is extensive and in-depth.

So the only loser here is you, as you're pretty much discredited. Nothing you say is of any real value.

opcorn:

You are an idiot. They can post anything they want. There was NO research. The write up was just a recap of the thread posts which were done by people like you who randomly posted on an internet site. I can give phone numbers for every teacher and certificates for every promotion. I went to a Throwdown alone and rolled with everyone including Judo black belts none of which ever submitted me - oh and I had 2 crushed discs in my neck at the time which I later had removed and fused. I have trained a Virginia Cage Fighting Champion and taught many others who have gone on to the same level of success.

I have the phone numbers and names of former staff members at Bullshido who know what happened to me and will back up what I am saying now. The guy who did the write up was kicked out of Bullshido and banned, Chuck Harden.

Carlos Machado remembered me from 12 years prior - guess that means I was just a seminar person huh. I have signed pictures from these people and have trained with everyone I said that I have.

Thanks for contributing to drama and false accusations.

Do you know the martial arts they "research" and slander over there?

Good people, I could post the links here but I am not like you.

OMG - bullshido is your resource - enough said

 

[MJS]

You are an idiot. They can post anything they want. There was NO research. The write up was just a recap of the thread posts which were done by people like you who randomly posted on an internet site. I can give phone numbers for every teacher and certificates for every promotion. I went to a Throwdown alone and rolled with everyone including Judo black belts none of which ever submitted me - oh and I had 2 crushed discs in my neck at the time which I later had removed and fused. I have trained a Virginia Cage Fighting Champion and taught many others who have gone on to the same level of success.

I have the phone numbers and names of former staff members at Bullshido who know what happened to me and will back up what I am saying now. The guy who did the write up was kicked out of Bullshido and banned, Chuck Harden.

Carlos Machado remembered me from 12 years prior - guess that means I was just a seminar person huh. I have signed pictures from these people and have trained with everyone I said that I have.

Thanks for contributing to drama and false accusations.

Do you know the martial arts they "research" and slander over there?

Good people, I could post the links here but I am not like you.

OMG - bullshido is your resource - enough said

I have certs and photos and all that fancy stuff too. However, theres a difference....trainED and trainING with. I trainED with Royce Gracie for 2 days at a seminar. I dont consider him my teacher, nor do I consider myself his student. Now, if I was trainING with him or at one of his schools, that'd be different. Once again, all that stuff means nothing to me. Sure, they're nice memories, but me....I dont use them to bring in students or promote myself.

But all that aside....this thread is heading down the crapper fast. Lets get back to talking about sparring with other schools.

 

[Tez3]

As we are within 'the wire' of a military camp we don't get people walking in off the street..sadly lol. No, it's not a good idea people coming in off the street to prove they can fight, it's such a faff hiding their bodies after they've been proved wrong.

'Cage fighting' champion, we have a rule of thumb over here, I magine it's the same in America...that if someone says they are a cagefighter, do cagefighting or is a cagefighting champion they aren't. MMA people say they do MMA, are an MMA champion, it's a sort of thug, Tapout tshirt wearing, wannabe thing to say you are a 'cage fighter'.

 

[Noah_Legel]

Wow, this thread has gotten derailed! I'll go along with it for one paragraph, I suppose:

I strongly disagree with Jason Brinn's position on sparring, and I am a big proponent of keeping people honest so I like that Bullshido makes an effort to investigate people for credentials that could be false or for a lack of effective training while claiming to be effective. That said, I don't think Bullshido's investigation of him really has anything more to do with this thread than the fact the people don't like his opinion and so they want to point out that they have reasons that his opinion should not be valid. Whether you believe his credentials or not, he has still been training enough that people with legitimate grappling credentials can recognize that he has some training, and so he has enough information to formulate an opinion on this particular subject--even if we all think that his opinion is wrong.

Now then, back to the topic at hand! It would appear that I missed the very last section of the OP, which would be the part referring to people just coming in off the street. I would agree that if I haven't at least confirmed that the person has been training at a legitimate gym then I would not spar with them, myself, and I don't believe my instructor would allow that person to spar with anyone in our dojo. Letting totally unknown people show up unannounced and without having contacted their instructors is asking for people with a major attitude to come in with something to prove.

 

[MJS]

Heres the OP:

"I had a discussion with a friend the other day and it got me thinking.

1) Do you believe that schools should have an open mat sparring sessions?

2) If you are or where a school owner/instructor would you have or conduct open mat sparring sessions, where anyone off of the street or in your school could go and spar. (When I mean off of the street I mean from another school, or say people that use to train in the martial arts etc. etc. could come and spar to tune up their skills)

3) Do you as a school owner or instructor believes this practice would help or hinder your students or your school?

Just wondering.

I'm not talking about the instructor vetting people to come and spar their students per say to help raise the students skills up by sparring people they don't know. I mean just have people randomly show up at this time and put up or shut up so to speak. "

I didn't take his 'off the street' comment to mean some random person, ie: the Gracies have the open mat challenge. I took his comment that anyone with present or past MA training. In other words, you have to have some sort of legit training, from a legit school. I may be wrong, but this is my interpretation of what he was saying.

Some people think sparring is the bomb, others not so much. I'm in the middle. I do think that its important, but there are other important areas as well. The rank issue has been beat to death, and honestly, I dont know how that came into this thread. Oh yeah, Jason mentioned it. He said that someone who is say a yellow belt, could come against someone from another school, same rank, and get destroyed. Newsflash...the MA do NOT make you immune to getting beat. IMO, it should not be about your witty bitty feewings getting hurt, but instead, a learning experience. I've fought many sparring matches. I've lost and I've won. When I lose, I dont go into some depression....I look for the reasons why. I'll ask the person I fought, I'll ask someone who was watching. What did I do wrong? Was I telegraphing something? Maybe, just maybe, the person I fought is just that good. I've lost at tournaments, but thats ok...its a learning experience.

As for BSDO...LOL....I don't agree with all of their theories, but hey, there're alot of BSer's out there who defraud the unsuspecting, so if they, Bullshido, wants to police the martial arts world, more power to 'em.​

 

[Bob Hubbard]

ok. Regarding Mr. Brinn, Bullshido, etc.
I don't see that as pertinent to the discussion. I, like most people (which includes Wikipedia) don't give Bullshido much credibility. That's ok, they don't give us any either so we're even there. Maybe they're right, maybe they aren't. Not my place to decide, and I honestly don't care.

So, before I have to start remembering where I put the key to the infraction system, lets drop the personal attacks, character assassinations, and what not, and focus on the original topic.

That's not a request.

Thank you.

-Bob Hubbard
Administrator.

 

[Steve]

I also like the idea of open sparring. I think it would be great fun to spar with some guys who are more used to striking, and I can't think of any down side to it.

 

[Noah_Legel]

I also like the idea of open sparring. I think it would be great fun to spar with some guys who are more used to striking, and I can't think of any down side to it.

I believe there are several Kyokushin places in Washington--I know they are having a tournament in April in Seattle--so I'm sure at least one of them has an open sparring day. It can't hurt to ask, anyway!

 

[jasonbrinn]

Finally, I want to reiterate my original statement that I believe open sparring, or sparring at all for that matter, is not the "best" way to train or run a business. I mentioned rank only to say that people of less rank might be confused by random people coming into the school to spar showing different methodologies.

As a final rebuttal to the attacks on my character and shameless links to dishonest forums posting false accusations and displaying them as investigated facts; I am willing and ready to discuss those claims on an individual and specific thread here with anyone genuinely interested and not just trying to smear me cause they don't like my opinion. Those things posted about we ARE false and I have the proof to back them up. The "investigator" himself was permanently banned from the sight for investigatory crimes.

@MJS - please stay away from me
@The Last Legionary - follow behind your leader MJS and do the same please

@Tez - as for the statement you made about "cage fighting" and the people who use that term, like everything else I say that is true I was just using the term the promoter (who is highly respected) uses so maybe you should inform him, Matt Serra and Renzo who both go to the event: http://www.danvillemma.com/

Thank you admins for at least acting civil even though you allow these links while you protected Morton.

 

[Tez3]

I also like the idea of open sparring. I think it would be great fun to spar with some guys who are more used to striking, and I can't think of any down side to it.

When I was looking at a video on another thread, when it finished there's other videos 'on offer'? One was titled 'How to take a punch', would that help lol?

I don't honestly think you would get many people who would walk into a somewhere where martial arts is being trained and want to fight, it doesn't ring true somehow. People from others places that train perhaps. I think it would be fun to spar with others, I can't think of any downside either, you'd have your instructor/s there to 'ref' as well as others.

 

[MJS]

Finally, I want to reiterate my original statement that I believe open sparring, or sparring at all for that matter, is not the "best" way to train or run a business. I mentioned rank only to say that people of less rank might be confused by random people coming into the school to spar showing different methodologies.

As a final rebuttal to the attacks on my character and shameless links to dishonest forums posting false accusations and displaying them as investigated facts; I am willing and ready to discuss those claims on an individual and specific thread here with anyone genuinely interested and not just trying to smear me cause they don't like my opinion. Those things posted about we ARE false and I have the proof to back them up. The "investigator" himself was permanently banned from the sight for investigatory crimes.

@MJS - please stay away from me
@The Last Legionary - follow behind your leader MJS and do the same please

@Tez - as for the statement you made about "cage fighting" and the people who use that term, like everything else I say that is true I was just using the term the promoter (who is highly respected) uses so maybe you should inform him, Matt Serra and Renzo who both go to the event: http://www.danvillemma.com/

Thank you admins for at least acting civil even though you allow these links while you protected Morton.

Stay away from you??? Sorry Jay, but as an Asst. Admin here, I have to interact with numerous people, even those that I'd rather not. If you dont wish to post in this thread anymore, then don't, but I don't take orders from you, therefore I'll keep posting here. Sorry that you are offended by my posts Jay, but I'm calling it like I see it. I simply responded to your posts, you just didn't like what I had to say. Seems like you're not the only one who acts like that. But anyways....as for your 'claims' if you want to talk about your superior training, please...start a new thread.

Students may be confused by other people coming into their school. You're kidding right? LMAO! What're you dealing with here Jay, 3yr olds? A grown adult shouldn't find this confusing. Its really simple...."Hey everyone, if you've noticed I've placed a flyer on the wall. On Jan 20th, we're doing an open mat session. We're opening the school to Kims TKD school, Franks American Kenpo and the local MMA club, so anyone who wants to come down and train with us, can. If you're interested, come on down!" Jesus Jay, its that simple. Whats there to be confused about???

 

[jasonbrinn]

Different arts have different concepts on how things are done. Taekwondo kicks differently than Karate, most of the time, and should a student come in from the local TKD school for open sparring and run a clinic on people still honing their skills - a beginner or less than expert person might assume the method that won that time was superior. Kind of like after the first few UFCs when people of all types in the MAs were saying that BJJ was superior when it came to self defense and fighting - when in reality it is not the "best" system to study for knife encounters. People not seasoned don't necessarily pick up on these nuances, sometimes people of many years still don't. When I trained muay Thai and was learning the "thai kick" it didn't come well for quite some time - thankfully my teacher told me to stick with it and after a longer period than I would have expected it eventually started flowing right.

I find your posts inflammatory at best and more aggressive than necessary. I don't know how things are ran at Middletown but Mikey, can't we all just get along and act like adults here in the grand internet world since we aren't fortunate enough to live nearby to train together on the mat?

I never said my methods were superior, only that I have real data to back up that they work (thank you to all my great teachers who taught me the way to find them - like Carlos Machado ) I did nothing alone.

 

[MJS]

Different arts have different concepts on how things are done. Taekwondo kicks differently than Karate, most of the time, and should a student come in from the local TKD school for open sparring and run a clinic on people still honing their skills - a beginner or less than expert person might assume the method that won that time was superior. Kind of like after the first few UFCs when people of all types in the MAs were saying that BJJ was superior when it came to self defense and fighting - when in reality it is not the "best" system to study for knife encounters. People not seasoned don't necessarily pick up on these nuances, sometimes people of many years still don't. When I trained muay Thai and was learning the "thai kick" it didn't come well for quite some time - thankfully my teacher told me to stick with it and after a longer period than I would have expected it eventually started flowing right.

Again, it all comes down to how things're explained. Just because a TKD white belt spars a Shotokan yellow and gets tagged with side kicks, doesnt mean the white belt sucks, or that he should quit.

I find your posts inflammatory at best and more aggressive than necessary.

Then report them. They'll be reviewed by the other mods. Just because I'm an AA here, doesnt mean I'm immune to getting slapped by Bob. However, my posts are just to the point. Like I said, no sugar baby, just straight up honesty!

I don't know how things are ran at Middletown but Mikey, can't we all just get along and act like adults here in the grand internet world since we aren't fortunate enough to live nearby to train together on the mat?

Ran at Middletown? Middletown what? If you're talking about Middletown Kenpo, I'm not longer at that school. Not sure what you're talking about here pal.

I never said my methods were superior, only that I have real data to back up that they work (thank you to all my great teachers who taught me the way to find them - like Carlos Machado ) I did nothing alone.

Yes, you, along with countless others, have the 'data' to back up their methods as well.

 

[Steve]

Agreed, tez. I just can't picture some tough guy waking up on amsaturday and crashing some open sparring event like its a kumite.

As for sparring being bad, I don't get that at all. You don't learn to golf without golfing, or learn to play guitar without playing. In the same way, you can't learn to punch, kick, or grapple without doing it. Suggesting otherwise defies common sense. I would challenge anyone to name any activity at all that is learned without the way some people teach "martial arts."


Sent using Tapatalk. Please ignore typos.

 

[jks9199]

All right... Ordinarily, the staff here does not moderate in threads where they have posted. I'm making a small exception here. I think Bob Hubbard, the Board Owner was pretty clear. But I'm going to be crystal clear: This thread IS NOT about Jason Brinn/jasonbrinn. Period. It's about open mat sparring. If you want to discuss Mr. Brinn -- Go to The Great Debate. If it appears here, the odds are rather high that an infraction will be issued.

No more warnings. You've had the official word.

Jim Sheeran
jks9199
Asst. Administrator

 

[Blindside]

Hi Jason,

Finally, I want to reiterate my original statement that I believe open sparring, or sparring at all for that matter, is not the "best" way to train or run a business.

Quoted from earlier in the thread:

Sparring Ability - Let me say that I know this is not what 99% of you will believe but it is my GOSPEL TRUTH and that is sparring actually makes people worse fighters.

Well, you are certainly right that this is something that I don't believe, but I am curious about this, you have clearly trained in BJJ, do you consider "rolling" a form of sparring or a drill? How about randori in judo? I consider these both to be forms of sparring, and am hard pressed to imagine any top player who doesn't roll/randori/spar regularly. Can you give an example of one? If you believe your statement about how "sparring actually makes people worse fighters," how do you account for all the success these training methods have produced?

 

[Tez3]

If sparring is bad for you what do you do in it's place? How can you 'rehearse' for a sparring comp or a fight if you don't spar. How do boxers learn to fight if they don't spar because it's bad for them? Saying it's bad for you is one thing but what's the alternative then?

 

[MJS]

If sparring is bad for you what do you do in it's place? How can you 'rehearse' for a sparring comp or a fight if you don't spar. How do boxers learn to fight if they don't spar because it's bad for them? Saying it's bad for you is one thing but what's the alternative then?

Thats a very good question. I'm sure there are some people/arts that feel that its bad, but I'd be willing to bet that at least 90% if not more, of the arts out there, spar. Again, as I said, its 1 piece to the training, but an important one, nonetheless. You're always seeing MMA fighters spar, TKD spars, Kyokushin spars, BJJ sparring, unless they're training MMA, consists of rolling, as someone said. Hell even in the Filipino arts, they spar. Look at the Dog Bros.