Zujitsuka
Blue Belt
I had an interesting discussion with some guys and gals from my dojo on this topic last night.
So, what do my martialtalk.com people think?
So, what do my martialtalk.com people think?
Do we need killer instinct?
- Thread starter Zujitsuka
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Zepp
Master of Arts
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Absolutely! Killer Instinct and Killer Instinct 2 were totally kickass games. I wish they would make more.
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Absolutely! Kill or be killed. TW
Yes I feel its important to maintain a willingness to defend your life and the life of your family; so, your "respect" for life must be forsaken to preserve the life of individuals that you value more than the sub-human that is about to show a total lack of respect. What we are then talknig about is your willingness to, in turn, show a complete lack of respect. Is it a moral dilema? Yes, of course, but if you stop and compile a list of what you will and will not not die for, it won't be a descision made at the time of the the event in haste. This is a spiritual issue and the can be used for evil if you consider the idealogical wars of the twentieth century. You had guys like Stalin marching in to villages and taking all their food so he could feed his troops, this helped run the death toll to the tune of about twenty seven million. But what were his options?
Sean
Sean
Silat Student
Blue Belt
Perhaps a better definition of what you consider to be "killer instinct" might help with answering your question?
If by "killer instinct" you mean willingness to engage,I think any serious practitioner would tell you,yes.
loki09789
Senior Master
If by Killer instinct you mean the willingness to use force up to and including lethal force (if the situation dictates), then I would say yeah it is helpful to be able to tap into.
Generally speaking, in self defense focused training, a 'will to survive' would be more accurate a description though. I don't teach people to be 'killers' but 'survivors' who want to live another day with absolute determination.
There is an important and moral shift in how we encourage people to be motivated to use force as civilian/citizens.
For military type operators that have clear mission objectives that will require them to "locate close with and destroy the enemy or repel the enemies assault with fire and maneuver" defining that willingness to use force/lethal force should/could be appropriately termed "killer instinct." But, even there with peace keeper training for low intensity conflicts, a shift in use of force philosophy has to be trained or you will have infantry types "locating and closing with and enemy" when the mission does not require it.
That is why MP's are so highly sought after for 'peace keeping' missions because there is more 'discressionary training' in MP work than in Infantry type training because of the nature of the job.
Generally speaking, in self defense focused training, a 'will to survive' would be more accurate a description though. I don't teach people to be 'killers' but 'survivors' who want to live another day with absolute determination.
There is an important and moral shift in how we encourage people to be motivated to use force as civilian/citizens.
For military type operators that have clear mission objectives that will require them to "locate close with and destroy the enemy or repel the enemies assault with fire and maneuver" defining that willingness to use force/lethal force should/could be appropriately termed "killer instinct." But, even there with peace keeper training for low intensity conflicts, a shift in use of force philosophy has to be trained or you will have infantry types "locating and closing with and enemy" when the mission does not require it.
That is why MP's are so highly sought after for 'peace keeping' missions because there is more 'discressionary training' in MP work than in Infantry type training because of the nature of the job.
KenpoTex
Senior Master
Depends on your definition of that term. To me it means that I will win at all costs, failure is not an option, I'm going to go home tonight. In that sense I think that this type of mindset is very important. How many times do you hear stories about someone that succeeded against an opponent who may have been larger/stronger/faster/better trained? Is it because they just happened to get "lucky" or was is because they refused to accept defeat.
8
8253
Guest
In the right situation any person will kill another. It doesent matter if they say they would never kill anyone no matter what. Every one has the instinct to kill if their life or the lives of their loved ones are threatened. If their mind matches, it is possible. However, not all people have the mentality to do certain things, and may freeze up instead of taking any actions. Everyone has the instinct to kill, that in itself is a part of human nature. It just depends upon the mentality of the person who is being challenged at the time.
Paul Genge
Green Belt
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It depends what you mean by killer insinct. If you try to harm your attacker it often backfires on you. You can become focused on the technique you are using and often when this fails you cannot see other more appropriate opportunities. We are humans and not animals.
Using aggression can only get you so far. Ideally you should work with a calm detachment, but it is important to accept that causing injury or ultimately death is a possible outcome of every fight. The important thing is to though about these things and resolve any issues you have in the comfort of you own home and not whilst facing your attacker.
The main thing that will stop most people from using a knife is the fear of what will happen after the fight is over. Those not effected by this are either mad, intoxicated or proffessional. Some people fit all three catagories.
Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk
Using aggression can only get you so far. Ideally you should work with a calm detachment, but it is important to accept that causing injury or ultimately death is a possible outcome of every fight. The important thing is to though about these things and resolve any issues you have in the comfort of you own home and not whilst facing your attacker.
The main thing that will stop most people from using a knife is the fear of what will happen after the fight is over. Those not effected by this are either mad, intoxicated or proffessional. Some people fit all three catagories.
Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk
loki09789 said:
I agree with Paul on this one. Keep in mind, that not every situation is going to require killing someone, taking their eye, or breaking their knee. However, it is important, like Paul said, to be able to tap into that, especially when you need it. Alot of it is going to come down to the training methods that you have.
That old saying "You fight like you train" comes to my mind.
Mike
P
Patrick Skerry
Guest
If by 'killer instinct' you mean having the temperment to physically apply the martial arts you have learned to an assaillant, and then not feel bad after you've broken his arm, or leg, or ribs, then the answer is yes.
Silat Student
Blue Belt
I'm still waiting for what Z defines "Killer Instinct" as. Those two words are a bit of a buzz term. I'd agree with most of the above posts, my martial philosophy basically boils down to no attackers life being worth giving up my own life or the life of a victim/innocent.
KenpoTex
Senior Master
How's about two out of three? (sorry, couldn't resistPaul Genge said:
)
K
KenpoNoChikara
Guest
If to defend your own life or someone else's, then yes
Sin
2nd Black Belt
Now that I know i need one...how do I develop it and when do I use it
D_Brady
Purple Belt
I'm not trying to split hairs, I would call it and hope it would be more of a survival instinct. I will do what ever it takes to survive this attack, also it sounds better in court. I have the right to survive.
loki09789
Senior Master
Could the term 'killer instinct' be synonimous with "commitment" or "determination?"
By that I mean the willingness to do what needs to be done in order to accomplish the goal of stopping the threat, escaping the danger area...what ever. If you are truly 'defending yourself' within a reasonable limit, you have to tap into that 'determination' to accomplish the goal - if necessary because of the circumstances to the point of lethal force.
At different phases of training, I have seen people wrestle with "could I really do that?" with techniques, levels of force, moral quandries.... which I think is healthy. I wouldn't want people blindly willing to leap on someone at the smallest sign of danger.
I think educating people on the legal limits, helping them work through their personal ethics/morals/values so that they can CONSCIOUSLY say "Yes, I understand the consequences of taking or not taking this particular action" and make the choice that accomplishes the goal AND keeps them within their moral structure. WHen the fit hits the shan and you have to decide between things, usually it isn't between GOOD and BAD so much as BAD and BADDER because there are always risks, complications and problems but it is important to be DECISIVE and not kill valuable time dwelling on things, save that for after the moment. Tactical mentallity is different from reflecting on something, (call it "mental fluidity").
Not to be morbid but IMO Killing is as intimate or even MORE personal than sex because it is permanent. Even if it is all just theory until you come to that moement, having some understanding (physical training as well as internal examination) about how and what you do under stress helps you "see" and "know" what your potential for actions are. THEN you can start deciding on what to do about training yourself to do something else (behavioral/neural habit training to over ride prior habits/tendencies) or to enhance and build off of those already existent habits.
Are you an instinctual 'cocooner' and shut down? Do you get sleepy, freeze, laugh, cry, angry, growl, 'crazed', go on the offensive....?
Instructors talk a lot about what they 'teach' people, but it is just as important to set up 'personal observation' moments that let people get a glimpse of what they are like under stress as well.
By that I mean the willingness to do what needs to be done in order to accomplish the goal of stopping the threat, escaping the danger area...what ever. If you are truly 'defending yourself' within a reasonable limit, you have to tap into that 'determination' to accomplish the goal - if necessary because of the circumstances to the point of lethal force.
At different phases of training, I have seen people wrestle with "could I really do that?" with techniques, levels of force, moral quandries.... which I think is healthy. I wouldn't want people blindly willing to leap on someone at the smallest sign of danger.
I think educating people on the legal limits, helping them work through their personal ethics/morals/values so that they can CONSCIOUSLY say "Yes, I understand the consequences of taking or not taking this particular action" and make the choice that accomplishes the goal AND keeps them within their moral structure. WHen the fit hits the shan and you have to decide between things, usually it isn't between GOOD and BAD so much as BAD and BADDER because there are always risks, complications and problems but it is important to be DECISIVE and not kill valuable time dwelling on things, save that for after the moment. Tactical mentallity is different from reflecting on something, (call it "mental fluidity").
Not to be morbid but IMO Killing is as intimate or even MORE personal than sex because it is permanent. Even if it is all just theory until you come to that moement, having some understanding (physical training as well as internal examination) about how and what you do under stress helps you "see" and "know" what your potential for actions are. THEN you can start deciding on what to do about training yourself to do something else (behavioral/neural habit training to over ride prior habits/tendencies) or to enhance and build off of those already existent habits.
Are you an instinctual 'cocooner' and shut down? Do you get sleepy, freeze, laugh, cry, angry, growl, 'crazed', go on the offensive....?
Instructors talk a lot about what they 'teach' people, but it is just as important to set up 'personal observation' moments that let people get a glimpse of what they are like under stress as well.
D
Disco
Guest
Boxing trainers use the term when looking for potential contenders. In normal terms it has a two fold meaning. The first, referencing the boxing, is the mental attitude to inflict physical harm on another while in a controled setting. Killing the person is not in the equation. Not a lot of people have that attitude. The second, which everybody can rise too, is the pure self defense or survival instinct. The difference here is that some take longer to engage that feeling then other's, but they will engage it. Training can have a lot to do with the time element.
