Do guys get intimidated?

Discussion in 'Women of the Martial Arts (Women Martial Artists)' started by Carina Jørgensen, Apr 6, 2004.

  1. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    Yes this point it is what I wonder in particular.. you learn as men who you really are.. then learn to be that kind of man.. You can ennumerate how this is learned? Like I mean in particular in the absence of what appear good male role models maybe? I cannot remember how it is for me.. I do not have role models and I know I turn out a little bit not so good.. I fret a little some for my son.. I cannot be role model for him for how to be proper man I can only say this or that and but saying is like saying to someone how to do nikkyo.. saying is not enough.. need to have it modelled.. I hope I make sense thank you :)
     
  2. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    I don't think of it in terms of learning who I am as a man or following a specifically male role model.

    I could think of it in two main chunks. The first would be discovering who I am as an individual - what my strengths and weaknesses are, what sort of activities, lifestyle, and relationships make me happy. That's largely a matter of exploration and experimentation. I'm actually interested in a huge number of things - math, history, sewing, carpentry, wilderness survival, medieval reenactment, yoga, writing, engineering, and much more. As it turns out, computer programming is something I like and am naturally good enough at to earn a living. Music and martial arts are activities I love enough to spend serious time on and develop some skills at despite being naturally untalented at both. Role-playing games are something I enjoy enough to spend some casual time playing with friends. I learned these things by trying out lots of the things I'm interested in and seeing where they lead me.

    The other main aspect is looking at the kind of person I want to be in relation to others. When I was younger, I was socially clueless and made a regular habit of offending and annoying others through sheer unawareness. When I eventually realized what an unintentional jerk I was being, I spent quite a few years and lots of emotional hard work trying to become a better person. One aspect of this was emulating people who I felt were good examples of how I wanted to be. People who were good at listening. People who knew how to say a thoughtful word at the right moment. People who made others feel like their company was valued. People who could offer a correction or contradiction without being mean or offensive. These role-models were both male and female.

    I think as long as you're teaching your son to be a good person, he'll be just fine. You don't have to be male to do that.
     
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  3. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    There is no such thing as a role model for a 'proper man', you learn to be a well rounded decent human being or you don't. It's not about being a 'proper' man or woman that is sending children down a road that is not going to end well.
     
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  4. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    No you have misunderstood me I have not used the word that is apropos of wha tI mean.. sorry.. that is my fault.. I know what I like to ask and but I cannot think of how to say it.. sorry :) x
     
  5. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    Sometimes I find I can clarify my thinking and my explanations by asking myself questions about the underlying assumptions behind the point I am trying to make and seeing where those questions lead me.

    With regard to your original concerns regarding the demands of society and providing a role model for your son, I might ask questions like the following:

    Do you believe there are inherent differences in how men and women should behave and what roles they should take in society?

    Do you think that the gendered expectations of society put individuals at risk of being pulled away from the person they naturally are?

    Do you think that a persons innate nature is primarily or largely determined by their gender?

    Do you think that if an individual is striving to be a good person, happy, and a productive member of society and they are seeking role models for that purpose, that they will have a harder time emulating a role model of a different gender?

    If you are worried that your son cannot use you as a role model, what specific features are you worried that he couldn't learn from you that he could learn from a male role model?

    Are you worried about superficial, but practical matters (like how to dress and speak in accordance with societal gender standards to get the most positive reactions from others) or are you concerned with matters more central to his personal identity?

    What demands might society place upon a man to "emasculate" him? It what ways would this condition be negative?

    If those same demands were put upon a woman, would they be negative in the same way? If not, why not?

    ... and so on.

    I'm not suggesting that you should answer all those questions here, but if you think about how you would answer them and whatever other questions they might lead to, then that process might lead you to where you can clearly express the point you are trying to make to others who may or may not share your starting assumptions.
     
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  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I will say that I don't think a gender-specific role model is entirely necessary. That said, when we are young, we tend to want an example to learn from and tend to identify more closely with those of our own gender. We look for cues of how to act, and when we are young we want to not be different and awkward (which we all are).

    You can be the good role model your son needs, without having a man to act as "father". I know men who grew up without a father, and still turned out to be good people. That said, it would be a good idea to get him around men you consider good examples, on a regular basis, so you can use them to explain to him what good behavior is.

    The biggest influence on him, though, will probably still be you. If you show him that an adult has principles, has compassion, is vulnerable and tough, and is not perfect, you'll go a long way toward raising a good person (who just happens to be a guy).
     
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  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Tony, as usual, has filled in some of my thoughts before I had to type them. A couple of key points here worth making sure your son learns over time:
    • Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Your son has to find his strengths, and accept that there are some things he may not be good at, while not giving up too quickly just because something new is hard.
    • We all have interests, and they don't have to be anyone else's. They are ours, and it's fun when we find someone to share them with, but it's also okay if we just like enjoying those interests on our own.
     
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  8. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    The role model thing got me to thinking.....

    When I used to teach full time, there was a kids class that started the dojo afternoon. It was a fairly big class, very strictly run. For the kids, it was the best take in town, so it was easy to have strict rules and demeanor.

    The parents, many of whom came to pick them up, would come early to watch. What I heard from a lot of them, especially the fathers, was "I can't believe what you get them to do, and how they've been acting since they started coming here."

    I always told them, 'What, you think if they were my kid, any of them, they'd listen to me? Fat chance of that. I don't know anything about raising kids, I don't have any.

    They'd say, "But how do you.."

    I'd reply, "They like coming here. They think it's cool. It's like they're playing army man, or cowboys or something. They're learning to fight if necessary. It changes everything for them, in school, in their neighborhood, everywhere. It changes how other kids look at them, it changes how they feel about themselves. And you know why? Because of them. (And I'd point to the adult black belts, the advanced guys, the assistant teachers, the professional fighters, all of whom were drifting in as the kids class was ending.) "They're all gentleman, every single one of them. The kids want to be like them. They see how hard they work, they see their attitude, they see them dealing with people as ladies and gentlemen, and all those guys talk to the kids, your son/daughter, too, all the time. That's why we can get the kids to do just about anything. Because they want to.

    I hope everyone realizes what kind of role models are in the dojo, all day, every day. And, usually, they don't even realize they're being role models. (sometimes it's good to remind them) Kids are like sponges.
     
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  9. realg7

    realg7 Orange Belt

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    Holy cow.....Felt like a springer episode...Back to training now...lol.

    Any person can be a lethal weapon. It's the operator not the tool. Man or woman, you are the weapon....

    Some use their weapons better than others....

    Don't think it matters in the lethal arts.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
     
  10. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    People discuss things that worry them, I wouldn't dismiss what they say and 'lethal weapon' has nothing to do with anything on this thread. I think you haven't got the point of the thread.
     
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  11. realg7

    realg7 Orange Belt

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    I thought it was to argue and disagree and get upset. Not interested. But Rhonda Rouse could not fight Brock Lesnar without a LETHAL WEAPON

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  12. realg7

    realg7 Orange Belt

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    Rousey oops misspelled it. Good luck with your QUEST sister.....hope u make it.

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  13. realg7

    realg7 Orange Belt

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    No never been scared by I strong woman. Turned on...yes

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  14. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    That's just weird.
     
  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Being an adult also allows more flexibility to be yourself as well. If you were in high school and wanted to sew during lunch time. You would probably also have to crack heads
     
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  16. realg7

    realg7 Orange Belt

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    It was also very late. Sorry for the misunderstanding. All women are scary as hell. Even as a 6ft 2 trained giant there are plenty of women that could take me out. Lol

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  17. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I only have three things to say.

    One is..

    [​IMG]

    The second is..

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. mograph

    mograph Master Black Belt

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    Men seem to be intimidated when women lose it, get angry, wild-eyed, loud, insane.
    A female friend of mine refers to it as going "crazy lady." Doing so made a threatening man back off once, but I don't recall the details.

    Anyone have experience with this, first-hand?
     
  19. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Married men have. If they haven't yet, they will.

    Be afraid, be very afraid.
     
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  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Or, at the very least, put up with a lot of abuse. Heck, when I was in school, reading during lunch would draw the bullies like a stereotyped scene in a teen-oriented TV show.
     

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