Do cross hand grabs to the wrist happen much in real fights?

Bod

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BJJ developed gazillions of submissions from the guard.

Judo has bazillion etchinques for throwing someone in a jacket.

TKD has fifty fazillion high kick combinations.

What's wrong with a system which has thousands of wrist grab counters?

Just don't train it as your sole method of self defence.
 

pesilat

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sgtmac_46 said:
Didn't figure I was the only one who felt that way about the wrist grab. I must have been taught a couple thousand ways to escape a wrist grab in my life, and the only time i've seen a wrist grabbed like that is when someone says "grab my wrist". That's usually followed by "not with that hand, with the other hand". Then, when it's finally sorted out which hand is grabbing which wrist, we get to see some very dramatic and impressive (static) technique to escape it. I always break out in to hysterical laughter anytime I see a wrist grab technique now days. But, having reflected on it, I guess I shouldn't make so much fun as I suppose wrist grab techniques do have a role.


Hey, by the way.....grab my wrist

When you put it that way, it does have a certain "pull my finger" ring to it, doesn't it? :lol:

Mike
 
T

Tremble

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LOL.:D

I was on the verge of getting T shirts printed up at one point to tease some of my Aikido friends.

On the front- "AIKIDOKA"

On the back- "GRAB MY WRIST AND MAKE MY DAY!"
 
S

Sifu Barry Cuda

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Hey Guys, my protoge Vic[Nanolo74} told me about this thread and all I could say was "grab this". In the context of the Kali I teach ,the wrist grab defences are taught to counter someone grabbing your weapon hand.I also think its important to know such techniques and practice them in hubud and chi sao, but as a former hard drinking,fight starting maniac, the only time anyone ever grabbed my wrist was the bouncer of whatever club I was being thrown out of LOL.As far as JKD is concerned I know for a fact Bruce Lees counter to a wrist grab was a punch right to the snout.In a fight you should be HITTING, not looking to do some "crazy thing".I have taught seminars all over the US to people of every imaginable style and someone allways asks about "how do you get out of this?" When I tell them to hold my wrist as tight as they can then punch them in the nose, its always" wow I never thought of that" Just my two cents, Barry www.combatartsusa.com d
 
M

madfrank

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Hii

No these attacks do not happen often in reality according to the police statistics I've read and my personal experience.



I may get cross hand wrist grabbed but if I do ill probably punch, kick, knee, gouge, etc him.



So I dont need to waste time training specifically for this. IMNSHO.

It's like arts that spend 50% of their training doing the opposite side blocks etc in case the attacker is left handed.

Only 17% of ppl are so dont waste training time, be real.







MF
 

Adept

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Well, I look at things like this in several ways. One, if a man is trying to assault a woman, or drag her away, a grab to the wrist is more likely to occur than durng a blue between two blokes in a pub.

The same applies when someone might try to assault or drag away a child.

Also, the basic defenses against a wrist grab that we run through in the 'grab my wrist' drills set basic movement principles that are expanded on later in terms of joint maipulation.
 

sgtmac_46

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Sifu Barry Cuda said:
Hey Guys, my protoge Vic[Nanolo74} told me about this thread and all I could say was "grab this". In the context of the Kali I teach ,the wrist grab defences are taught to counter someone grabbing your weapon hand.I also think its important to know such techniques and practice them in hubud and chi sao, but as a former hard drinking,fight starting maniac, the only time anyone ever grabbed my wrist was the bouncer of whatever club I was being thrown out of LOL.As far as JKD is concerned I know for a fact Bruce Lees counter to a wrist grab was a punch right to the snout.In a fight you should be HITTING, not looking to do some "crazy thing".I have taught seminars all over the US to people of every imaginable style and someone allways asks about "how do you get out of this?" When I tell them to hold my wrist as tight as they can then punch them in the nose, its always" wow I never thought of that" Just my two cents, Barry www.combatartsusa.com d
A few punches to the snoot and some kicks to the low-line breaks a wrist lock nearly every time.
 

sgtmac_46

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I gotta be honest with everyone. I do remember one occassion when I was grabbed by the wrist in a confrontation. I don't know why it didn't come to me before, but i'll share it with the forum.

I was maybe 18, and this guy picked a fight with me at a party outside of town. He was in the process of brutally beating the air near my face with near misses, when he got tired of getting jabbed in the nose and swinging back at nothing. He decided to grab the offending hand to prevent it from punching further, and to grab me by the hair of the head with the other hand.

It must have seemed like a good plan until he realized that I was born with TWO hands, not just one. He realized this as the flat of my palm began tapping out morris code by slapping him repeatedly in the groin. Just when I seemed to have his undivided attention, I emphasized my point by grabbing him by the throat and squeezing it shut. I'll save everyone from the gory details of the rest of the fight, except to say it involved some elbows, a few thai leg kicks and a whole lot of back-pedalling and apologizing.

Suffice to say, I guess I must admit to lying when I said i'd never seen a wrist grabbed in a real fight, as I had mine grabbed once. I prefer my response to the wrist escapes I learned subsequent to that day, however.
 
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sifu Adams

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I have seen this used two ways.

1. I have seen Modern arnis use it as a set up move. example is they will throw a haymaker type move to draw your hand up. a unexperance person most of the time will grab at the hand. from there as Ramy would put it " game over"

2. I have also seen (and done) where they will grab your right arm and pull it across and down towards you left hip. if done right your oppont can't kick or punch and you have there whole side and back to do as you please.
 

Bod

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The 'punch the snot out of grabber' defence is great if you have equal or superior weaponry or strength to the guy grabbing.

If the chances of them winning the one handed snot punching contest are high then you want to escape that wrist grab and get out of there.
 
K

KenpoNoChikara

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Like a few people have already said, it would be more likely to happen to a woman then a man. This is usually something taught at a women's self defense class at my dojo.
 

white belt

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In a case of mistaken identity I had a very large tuff, with a few beers in him, knock on my door to kick the snot out of someone he was looking for. This was about twenty five years ago and I had about one year of MA training. When I opened the door to see who it was he shoved his way in and I backed away a few steps thinking "holy ****"! I put my hands up in a reflex defensive response and he grabbed my left wrist with his left hand and pulled me toward him. I went on total autopilot. I wrapped my left hand around his left wrist in response, went with his pull, and slammed the knuckles of my right fist into his left temple. He went backward and hit the closed door. His eyes were still open and I thought he was still conscious. I then hit him three more times in the head as he tumbled to the floor. His eyes were still open. As he lay on the floor, my girlfriend called 911 as I watched for him coming to and attacking or ceasing to breath. Cops came in 5 minutes flat. I explained the situation as they tried to revive him. I saw him on a balcony elsewhere in the apartment building earlier that night and showed the cops where I thought he came from. I told them I would not press charges if he promised to never bother me again after we made out a report. The cops revived him and helped him to his apartment to the greeting of his surprised wife. Apparently she came out of the restroom to find him gone and did not know where he went! I thought his inability to walk well was from beers. My girlfriend and I saw him around for a couple of months after and his wife was helping him walk to and from their car. We avoided contact and so did they. I found out later that he was suffering from some type of temporary motor function loss from my hitting him and he was going to therapy of some type when we saw him being walked by his wife. I looked over my shoulder for a long time after that and was thankful that: 1) I was drilled on a couple of basic wrist grab reversals and 2) I didn't accidently kill the poor stooge.

Only wrist grab fix I ever had to initiate (Thank God).
One added note: I lived in a 3rd floor apt. and he was between me and the door. The other door was a balcony with a 3 story drop to the parking lot. Major sucko.

white belt


(* Edited for content. Please just type and let the filter do what it is intended to do. Thank you. Rich Parsons Martial Talk Super Mod *)
 

arnisador

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TaiChiTJ said:
I am interested in knowing what people think about an opponent grabbing your right wrist with his right hand. Do "cross hand" grabs like this happen much in real world fights?
I view this scenario in two main ways. One is a bigger person trying to drag off a smaller person, as in an abduction. I recall seeing a surveillance video showing someone grabbing an arm like this and dragging a minor toward a van.

The other is that I might start a backfist, say, and you might block and grab it, and we might end up in a high version of this position. I then view the standard sort of practice of getting into a lock from this position as a full range of motion technique whereas in practice it might only be a partial version of that. I find that this happens often enough to be worthwhile.

In stick fighting, of course, grabbing the wrist of the opponent's stick hand happens more frequently, and we have to have ways to quickly deal with it in order to free up our weapon hand. The key is a quick response before the grip is truly "set on".
 

Matt Stone

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Understand that many of the "traditional" methods of training joint locks and throws are intended not as the actual application, but rather as a safe method by which to practice and understand the mechanics involved in the technique.

By doing certain techniques in certain ways, the biomechanical principles are illustrated in an easy to understand fashion. Then, once you "understand" the technique, dissect it and begin finding ways to apply it outside the scope of the easy, safe training drill. Add techniques to other techniques, finding ways that different locks and holds compliment and reinforce others.

Then go back to the original drill and you'll find just how illustrative it was.

Enjoy.
 

still learning

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Hello, I enjoy reading all the feed backs and most of you seems to agree this cross hand grabs do not happen much in fights? But a few said they had experience these "grabs" before. What does it mean now?

Should we continune to practice against this type of "grabs"? What are your thoughts?
 

Matt Stone

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still learning said:
Should we continune to practice against this type of "grabs"? What are your thoughts?

Did you read what I wrote upthread? I'm not the sole authority by any means, but you need to fully grasp two things:

1) Always practice what you've been taught and try to find how it applies beyond what you've been taught.

2) You should practice against any and all attacks, be they strikes, grabs, pushes, kicks, trips, etc., in as many varied conditions, angles, and situations as you can. To do any less is to ignore possibilities...
 

Dan G

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I was at a seminar a year or so ago where a trad karate practitioner was explaining kata applications. He pointed out that a lot of hidden moves in forms/kata were actually techniques againt wrist grabs and explained that the grab was the opponent's defence to a very direct and pragmatic throat, eye or testicle grab by the karate practitioner (omitted from the form as being too obvious a defence to need training).

I liked the explanation, a soft tissue strike as an intial reaction to a threat or opening in the guard, followed by a counter if the opponent grabs the wrist. Made more sense to me than waiting for an attacker to come up and hold one's hand, and also seems a good way of drawing an opponent into a position where a wrist lock can be applied...

Whatever the merits of the kata interpretation (I liked it) it made me view wrist grabs in a new light.

Respectfully,

Dan
 

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Dan G said:
I was at a seminar a year or so ago where a trad karate practitioner was explaining kata applications. He pointed out that a lot of hidden moves in forms/kata were actually techniques againt wrist grabs and explained that the grab was the opponent's defence to a very direct and pragmatic throat, eye or testicle grab by the karate practitioner (omitted from the form as being too obvious a defence to need training).

I liked the explanation, a soft tissue strike as an intial reaction to a threat or opening in the guard, followed by a counter if the opponent grabs the wrist. Made more sense to me than waiting for an attacker to come up and hold one's hand, and also seems a good way of drawing an opponent into a position where a wrist lock can be applied...

Whatever the merits of the kata interpretation (I liked it) it made me view wrist grabs in a new light.

Respectfully,

Dan
That's a good point! A cross hand wrist grab happening as a response to a soft tissue grasp. I have seen that happen. I, and maybe a few others, tend to think of the cross hand wrist grab as the initial response, not the reflexive counter to the initial reponse. I am a TKD practicioner and there are a LOT of wrist grab defenses in our patterns. Again, good one!

white belt
 

still learning

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Hello, We do practice defense against hand grabs. We do defence against weapons using the hand /wrist grabs to armbars/disarm and so on. Lots of in close type of fighting, using everything we have. There is no limits in our training.

There is one technique we practice if an arm presents itself and we can grab the wrist(straight across or cross hands) to off balance them, pull towards you and kick at the same time at the knees/groin areas at the same time, follow up with more hits/strikes, then take down and continune the strikes/stomps. Off course there is different levels of attack and we must use our judgement on how much we need to finish the fight?

Do cross hand grabs happen? Off course they do at times. Practice for them....Aloha
 

arnisador

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That is an interesting interpretation Dan G. Again, it reminds me of the FMA where we think of it as someone countering a stick strike by grabbing the wrist.
 

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