First of all you folks misintripted what I mean by philosophy. In this case I mean the philosophy of "mma"/"tma". Otherwise I wouldn't bother to put it down, it seems unrelated. Next, some folks mentioned application. In the orginal discussion, I did mention application. His response confused me. It was something about how it's not the original martial art anymore, because you changed it to suit the person doing it. I had a hard time trying to explain that that is part of the kata, well ok, he completely missed it. Also, 2 or 3 people mention being battle tested. Several traditional martial arts have been "battle tested", in some way. I know styles like Shotokan, Judo, Wing Chun, old school Tae Kwon Do (in America, I question if it'll work too well, only because of the large number of mcdojos/pseudomcdojos), and I know Cuong Nhu has been. But has any MMA style been "battle tested"? Has someone like Pat Miletich been in a "real" fight? Someone also mentioned how one trains. Few traditionalists train in what could be considered a "real" manner. But, how many MMA fighters train in a "real" manner? I'm not questioning the effectiveness of MMA, but how many have (say) been in a sparring match with no ref? Or in street clothes? Or what resemble them? Still learning mentioned nothing works like the real thing. The goal of someone training for self defense would be to as closely as possible match what a fight would be like. And at this point I'm getting into my last paragraph. Next, one of the things I mentioned was it depends on the situation. I gave him that in a one on one fight, with no weapons MMA could be more effective (it is after all the focus). But I mentioned that TMA also uses weapons, weapon defense, and some do mutli opponent pseudo-situation training. What about this, one on one, one on mutli and weapons employment, could that make any differnce? What about my earlier mention of application, does that change something from being a traditional art to a pseudo-MMA style? He also mentioned the origin of mixed martial arts. He says they came about when some one went through an entire system, and realised it doesn't work. So, set person, found what worked best, and added Muay Thai and Ju Justu to supplement. Is this at all accurate? It seems to be a little hard to believe, since most of the MMA fighters I have seen, do more-or-less the same thing as every one else. And don't worry, I'm going to find some MMA stylists to help this discussion.