Disciplining Kids

[Andrew Green]

Its defenately her business but sensei id in her mid 60s too. So i almost think she likes the size it is. The school in total has 20 students enrolled. so we are small. The other issue is there are only 2 shotokan schools left in the area i live. Im very passionate about martial arts and take it seriously. It disapoints me that alot of the teenagers dont and all they care about is getting a black belt.some are very disrespectful and shes held them back because she doesnt feel they are ready and there are a few upset parents asking why their kid doest have a black belt yet. Its not about the belt its about learning respect and disapline.

Forget about the competition, they really aren't a problem. Your real competition is soccer practice, dance classes and other activities. More karate schools helps all the karate schools, and the ones that are the best grow.

At 20 students it's going to be tough. If you make changes you can get it to grow, but if the owner doesn't want to make changes and grow it won't. She may see that as selling out, or changing tradition, or any number of things. But, to be perfectly honest, it's not a very good school. Good schools grow, it might have good things about it, but it's not a good school.

I don't care what the subject is, if you put grade 1 students and grade 8 students in the same class and try to teach them the same it's going to fail and you're going to have class management issues. It's just too many years and they got too much difference.

You would probably end up with a bigger class by removing kids bellow a certain age, because your retention would go up. But it would take time, something that could be sped up with marketing, but I suspect she doesn't like paying for marketing?

Martial Arts is a social activity. We do it because its fun, and we enjoy the people we do it with. Especially with kids. If you can't look at the class and see them in at least the same sort of age range that they might be friends... it's not going to work. A 6 year old and a 12 year old will not be inviting each other over to hang out after class based on age alone. Why would they want to hang out in a class together?

Beyond that if discipline is a issue the things to look at would be class structure and curriculum. If the curriculum is inappropriate for the group you'll have problems, and if the pacing and structure of the class are inappropriate you will have problems. If they are having fun and learning at the same time a lot of issues will go away, but if the only reason they are there is because mom or dad forced them... well it's going to be no fun for you.

Next thing is are you having fun? Fun is contagious. If you're having fun they probably will, if you aren't they probably won't. Make sure everyone is having fun

 

[shoto_tiger_girl]

Forget about the competition, they really aren't a problem. Your real competition is soccer practice, dance classes and other activities. More karate schools helps all the karate schools, and the ones that are the best grow.

At 20 students it's going to be tough. If you make changes you can get it to grow, but if the owner doesn't want to make changes and grow it won't. She may see that as selling out, or changing tradition, or any number of things. But, to be perfectly honest, it's not a very good school. Good schools grow, it might have good things about it, but it's not a good school.

I don't care what the subject is, if you put grade 1 students and grade 8 students in the same class and try to teach them the same it's going to fail and you're going to have class management issues. It's just too many years and they got too much difference.

You would probably end up with a bigger class by removing kids bellow a certain age, because your retention would go up. But it would take time, something that could be sped up with marketing, but I suspect she doesn't like paying for marketing?

Martial Arts is a social activity. We do it because its fun, and we enjoy the people we do it with. Especially with kids. If you can't look at the class and see them in at least the same sort of age range that they might be friends... it's not going to work. A 6 year old and a 12 year old will not be inviting each other over to hang out after class based on age alone. Why would they want to hang out in a class together?

Beyond that if discipline is a issue the things to look at would be class structure and curriculum. If the curriculum is inappropriate for the group you'll have problems, and if the pacing and structure of the class are inappropriate you will have problems. If they are having fun and learning at the same time a lot of issues will go away, but if the only reason they are there is because mom or dad forced them... well it's going to be no fun for you.

Next thing is are you having fun? Fun is contagious. If you're having fun they probably will, if you aren't they probably won't. Make sure everyone is having fun

 

[shoto_tiger_girl]

You make a totally excellent point. i try to defintately have fun and create fun classes for everyone. I also trained in tae kwon do too and that school had structure and disapline as well. to tell the truth i feel like im not totally growing as a martial artist. It's hard to even learn anything in 2nd class. We do kata in line for example and are told to stay together and the teenagers don't they do it fast the kata is,sloppy. etc. But yes we are the 1 out of 2 schools left in the area that teach shotokan. I'm making headway for the discipline in the kids class. But still frustrated. Sorry I probably got way off subject. The only thing I can do is just keep doing what I'm doing for now. I guess. I don't know what else to do. She won't change things at least not now. She is very traditional too and set in her ways

 

[Andrew Green]

You make a totally excellent point. i try to defintately have fun and create fun classes for everyone. I also trained in tae kwon do too and that school had structure and disapline as well. to tell the truth i feel like im not totally growing as a martial artist. It's hard to even learn anything in 2nd class. We do kata in line for example and are told to stay together and the teenagers don't they do it fast the kata is,sloppy. etc. But yes we are the 1 out of 2 schools left in the area that teach shotokan. I'm making headway for the discipline in the kids class. But still frustrated. Sorry I probably got way off subject. The only thing I can do is just keep doing what I'm doing for now. I guess. I don't know what else to do. She won't change things at least not now. She is very traditional too and set in her ways

I don't mean any offence or think you should move... but why are you there? I'm just curious as I imagine there is something that keeps you there vs going somewhere else. What is it?

 

[shoto_tiger_girl]

I don't mean any offence or think you should move... but why are you there? I'm just curious as I imagine there is something that keeps you there vs going somewhere else. What is it?

 

[shoto_tiger_girl]

No offence taken lol basically i have been on the fence for sometime. The reson i stay is there is only one other shotokan school and they only meet 1 night a week which wont satisfy me. The kids really do love it when i teach. If im out sick they tell me when i come back that they miss me. I love to teach and some schools dont let their brown belts teach. Im so close to black i dont want to drop out. There are alot of factors why i stay. I hope it doesnt sound like gripe fest im just kinda feeling lost. I know alot gets lost in texts and emails lol.

 

[Andrew Green]

No offence taken lol basically i have been on the fence for sometime. The reson i stay is there is only one other shotokan school and they only meet 1 night a week which wont satisfy me. The kids really do love it when i teach. If im out sick they tell me when i come back that they miss me. I love to teach and some schools dont let their brown belts teach. Im so close to black i dont want to drop out. There are alot of factors why i stay. I hope it doesnt sound like gripe fest im just kinda feeling lost. I know alot gets lost in texts and emails lol.

I didn't get that impression, was just curious if there was a reason you could use to apply in your recruitment efforts.

Anyways, you said above you want to run your own school one day, and that is awesome. Someone that likes teaching kids and wants to carry on with that is a valuable asset to any school, You might have more influence then you realize.

My advice would be to do what you can to make the classes awesome. It might be tricky given some of the ways your hands are tied, but do it. Eventually you will either end up with the clout to make those decisions and modernize your school or start your own.

Second piece of advice would be start chatting with and getting into groups that have school owners, instructors, program directors, etc. in them discussing things about running and growing a school.

You sound like you come from a similar background to where I started, great little club that no one has the desire to really grow. There is absolutely nothing wrong with those clubs, but they tend to be a little set in there ways. If you want to run one and make a go of it as a career you'll need to supplement that karate knowledge with some business knowledge.

At a larger scale I think you can provide a bigger increase in value to your students, and I get the impression you agree. If there was more age groups you'd be able to run a better class, but you can;t get more age groups until the class grows, creating a bit of a dilemma.

Different pieces of changes are going to let you grow a little more. Figure out what your boss wants to see happen and then get ways to make that happen. It might not always be the method she thinks though. Is it more students? Is she trying to get a team of instructors ready so she can retire? Maybe she just wants a group of people to train with herself and the rest is just what she needs to get it?

 

[shoto_tiger_girl]

Yes I definitely want to have my own school someday. I'm quite a few years from that. Traditionally in shotokan I can't have my own school until I'm at least a second degree black belt. I'm only a 3rd degree brown so I still have several years to go yes she's talked on and off about retiring and giving the school to her son. With his job he can't take over the school right now. and there are no other black belts. She needs to be there to promote the 1st degree black belts and the ones up are all teenagers which they are too young to run the dojo especiallyfor insurance reasons. So it's kind of she's caught between a rock and a hard place. Yeah it's a little rough when there are a coupleof us that take it seriously and alot of them do not. I have made some friends too. I love teaching. Yes the kids are finally starting to straighten out. I think where I've been consistently teachingI think it helps they know who to look to.

 

[Andrew Green]

You might not be ready to take on a school, but there are things you can take on. Would you be up for taking on some marketing & sales? Maybe make the classes grow a little.

One other thought, Fire up a instructor training plan. Get some resources together and have a course, if the teenagers want to help out they got to go through the course first. Having them on the floor when they haven't been trained on how to be useful on the floor is no good. Make it very clear what they are and are not allowed to do at each stage of their training in the instructor training program.

 

[shoto_tiger_girl]

Thats an awesome idea. They should have to go through a course before they can teach yes id love to learn the business and marketing end of it. My friends school is really successful too. His is kenpo. Yeah another school I know of has their 1st degree browns do a community service project which I think they should do at our school too. thank you for all the guidance I appreciate any ideas you have. I want to be a really great sensei some day

 

[Andrew Green]

Thats an awesome idea. They should have to go through a course before they can teach yes id love to learn the business and marketing end of it

Do it, there is absolutely no reason anyone should ever be on the floor teaching without first being taught how to teach. Doesn't matter how good someone can throw a kick, teaching is a different skill altogether. I can point you to different resources and share what we do if you like. But in the end you got to figure out what works for you from the different approaches and get everyone that is on the floor on board with the same teaching systems.

 

[shoto_tiger_girl]

Yes i would definately like any info you have that would be super great

 

[WaterGal]

Yes thats why its so hard to do anything sometimes. When i do warm up ive been told not to make it too hard for the little ones but i feel like the older ones arent being challenged enough. We have a couple of older oned who misbehave and then it influences the little ones. This is why i have a tough time teaching sometimes

You'd be surprised at how much exercise kids in the 6-10 age range can do. They're the ones competatively sprinting down the room and back, seeing who can plank for the longest, who can do "suicide" drills fastest, etc - much more so than older kids and adults, in my experience.

 

[WaterGal]

Because it great to have help but sometimes it winds up being 8 teenagers all trying to help and as im teaching and some find that they can start taking over my class. And ive had to say something about it.

Make them do push-ups, and if they continue to do it, kick them out of your class. That's a huge, huge problem.

 

[WaterGal]

You might not be ready to take on a school, but there are things you can take on. Would you be up for taking on some marketing & sales? Maybe make the classes grow a little.

One other thought, Fire up a instructor training plan. Get some resources together and have a course, if the teenagers want to help out they got to go through the course first. Having them on the floor when they haven't been trained on how to be useful on the floor is no good. Make it very clear what they are and are not allowed to do at each stage of their training in the instructor training program.

This is a good idea, yeah. We've been thinking lately about developing a leadership or instructor assistant program like this for teenagers, since it would really help sometimes to have more help during some of the more popular class times.

 

[Andrew Green]

Yes i would definately like any info you have that would be super great

I'll put together a bit of a outline of what we do when I get a few minutes

 

[PhotonGuy]

I was going to leave a reply to the OP but now that I see this thread is 8 years old I see no point in replying to the original message. I didn't realize that when I first posted a reply and so for that reason Im editing it.

 

[Michael Loughrie12343]

Not to be rude, but sometimes it's okay to punish them for push ups or sit ups. Sorry, but something has to be done.

 

[wingchun100]

It doesn't take many kids acting out to destroy the morale of a class. I remember attending a kids' class at my old judo club. The teacher had them pair off to try a throw. Well, one kid decided to slap another right in the face. (These were all elementary school-age kids.) One of the senior instructors addressed it with the child, but when the parent showed up to get him, not a word was said to them. That just blew my mind that they let the parent leave without telling them what their kid had done.

 

[Tez3]

, but sometimes it's okay to punish them for push ups or sit ups.

I'm wondering why you would punish them for doing push up or sit ups?

It doesn't take many kids acting out to destroy the morale of a class. I remember attending a kids' class at my old judo club. The teacher had them pair off to try a throw. Well, one kid decided to slap another right in the face. (These were all elementary school-age kids.) One of the senior instructors addressed it with the child, but when the parent showed up to get him, not a word was said to them. That just blew my mind that they let the parent leave without telling them what their kid had done.

If it's dealt with in class there isn't really a need to mention it to parents. The child does something wrong, is reprimanded/punished, why bring down more punishment when it's been sorted? If the child doesn't learn and carries on despite reprimands and warnings then you tell parents, if you do it every single time the child misbehaves you have no way to escalate the punishment because 'I will tell your parents' doesn't work.