Different Style(s) of Tai Chi Chuan

[CrushingFist]

Me and my cousin are researching about Taijiquan. We're both looking forward to practice Taijiquan as soon as we find out all the answers to our questions. I' always been into the Arts, he got interested after he started his Philosophy stuff, he's actually a Philosophy student (college yes) so thats where he gets his interest probably. Anyhow, I've heard of a couple . Yang, Chen, Wu, Sun, don't know of any else, So i was just looking to see where can we find a list of the different styles, their difference, or brief description. We're both in New York City so this is very commercial and I don't like all these Big Profile, Commercial schools. number 1 because I wouldn't be able to afford it and thats basically it don't have to mention more. Well I hope I don't get anyone mad , I just come here to learn and learn and learn some more.

Thanks in advance, and hope to get a lot of positive posts.
P.S. I've been away for a while, but I'm back for good.

With all due respect!
RobNyc

 

[Dronak]

I think you've hit most of the major styles there. The other one I've heard of a bunch is a different Wu style, also called Hao style after a different famous practicioner, probably to help avoid confusion with the other Wu style. I could be wrong, but I think Yang is the most popular, with Chen second, and I'm not sure about the others. I believe that at least some of the standardized forms (I'm thining 24 posture, 48 posture, and 42 posture competition) are based in Yang style even though they incorporate aspects of other styles. I think you can also find various particular forms, like the Cheng Man Ching form, which I'm not sure count as their own style.

As for differences, I'd probably have to check my books. What I can think of offhand relates to Yang and Chen. Yang style is typically done very slowly and smoothly. Chen style includes fast, explosive movements, which can make the martial aspects of moves more obvious than in Yang style. Assuming what I've read is right, or at least the consensus, Chen style was the first form of tai chi, and Yang style developed out of that. IIRC, most other styles are some derivation/modification of Yang style.

I don't think I could help you on the school topic. I think that today, tai chi today is taught primarily for exercised and health benefits, so it may be hard to find a school that will include and teach the martial aspects. One thing you could consider is checking out local colleges and universities to see if they have martial art clubs or classes that would teach you tai chi.

I hope this of some help to you. Good luck with the research and beginning your practice of tai chi.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Historic Founder Chang San-Feng (Taoist)

Chen, Yang, Zhao Bao, Yang, Wu, Wu/Hao, Sun and there is a Li style as well. Not to mention several others I cannot remember the names of or I don’t know the names of. There can be big differences as well as similarities between the family forms

Chen, Yang, Wu, Wu/Hao, Sun are the 5 families recognized by the Chinese government as Tai Chi Families. I recently heard that they may have just recognized Zhao Bao as well.

Chen family came first (if you believe the Chen family history, but it was before the other family styles) Chen has and still teaches both Old frame and new frame and has lower stances than Yang style. I have to admit I like Chen; it still has obvious applications, Qin Na and fajing in the forms. Current family head is Chen Zhenglei. He is very good and very skilled.

Yang came from Chen
The most popular style today is Yang from the Yang Cheng Fu line. However there is another line, not as widely practiced that comes from Yang Chengfu's older brother Yang Shouhou (also spelled Yang Shao-hou) and uncle Yang Binhou (also spelled Yang Pan-hou). Yang Chengfu changed the form by removing the much fajing and Qin Na. However he did create a fast form (Yes there are fast forms in Tai Chi)
Current head of family style is Master Yang Zhen Duo and I believe the next in line is his grandson Master Yang Jun.

Zhao Bao came from Chen and is very cool, very low, very powerful

Wu Came from Yang, Pre Yang Cheng Fu

Wu/Hao also came from Yang, also pre Yang Chengfu

Sun Came from Wu/Hao. But the founder of Sun was considered a master of Xingyi and Bagua. There is a very good Xingyi book by the Sun founder Sun Lu Tang. Just as a side note Sun Lu Tang daughter and Sun style family head just died last year.

Zhao Bao is very rare and hard to find it may or may not be a combination of Chen and some other martial art from Zhao village. But it historically comes from a Chen family member.

Li style I have never seen, but it is also a combination of Tai Chi and other martial arts like Sun style.

Dong Style is from Tung Ying Chieh, a student of Yang Chengfu. However I do not think Sifu Tung ever called what he taught Dong style. I believe that came from either his son or grandson. Tung Ying Chieh added a second fast form and possibly a second straight sword and broad sword (da dow) form as well. Sifu Tung allegedly studied Wu/Hao prior to studying with Yang Chengfu and there are even some references that he may have studied with Yang Shouhou prior to studying with Yang Chengfu

Be very careful about Yang style classes or any Tai Chi classes for that matter. Many are not the full family forms. If the Yang class is in Yang 24 and 48 it is not traditional Yang. These are government competition forms. Most unfortunately all the 5 families have government competition forms. These forms are not generally taught be the families. Also depending on what you are after with Tai Chi, health and fitness, martial arts or both. It may be difficult to find an actual Martial Tai Chi School. Most are now for relaxation and health. However Zhao Bao I doubt has gone that root yet. Yang certainly has, Chen may be and I am not sure about Wu, Wu/Hao or Sun. By the way traditional Sun is also rare.

Also lineage is a good thing but not the end all be all of a good teacher. I know of bad teachers with good lineages and good teachers with less direct lineages. But in general lineage can be a good thing.


Links of interest
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Taichi/styles.html

List of Tai Chi Chuan forms
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-tai-chi-chuan-forms?method=22

Chen style
http://www.answers.com/Chen style Tai Chi Chuan

Yang Style
http://www.answers.com/Yang style Tai Chi Chuan

http://www.yangfamilytaichi.com/

Wu/Hao Style
http://www.answers.com/Wu%2FHao%20style%20T'ai%20Chi%20Ch'uan

Wu Style
http://www.answers.com/Wu%20style%20T'ai%20Chi%20Ch'uan

http://www.wustyle.com/

Sun Style
http://www.answers.com/Sun%20style%20T'ai%20Chi%20Ch'uan

Tchoung Style (this is a new one on me)
http://www.answers.com/Tchoung style Tai Chi Chuan

Dong Style
http://www.dongtaichi.com/

Tai Chi History
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Taichi/history.html

 

[Xue Sheng]

And here is another one

Sun family
International Sun Tai Chi Association
http://www.suntaichi.com/news.html

 

[Gaoguy]

Li style comes from Yang. There was an article about it in JAMA a couple of months ago. Zhao Bao isn't that rare, there are a couple of practitioners over at Empty Flower that can more info.

 

[CrushingFist]

Thanks so much everyone . I'm going to be reading those links, by the way I've heard of "Yangjia Michuan" (Hidden Tradition/Family) What you guys know about this?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Li style comes from Yang. There was an article about it in JAMA a couple of months ago. Zhao Bao isn't that rare, there are a couple of practitioners over at Empty Flower that can more info.

Yes Li style does come from Yang, with additions, similar to Sun coming from Wu/Hao.

My justification for calling Zhao Bao rare:

Yes Zhao Bao is on Empty Flower but as compared to Yang and Chen it is rare as is Sun. And the Zhao Bao people on EF tend to be from the West Coast and geographically to me it is rare being on the East Coast and the question referenced NYC.

Also there is a person that lives very near to me that teaches Zhao Bao, but he does not know Zhao Bao, he knows 2 Zhao Bao forms. A true Zhao Bao teacher is fairly rare on the right as apposed to the left coast. And from what I read on EF it is not all that common on the left coast either.

 

[Xue Sheng]

LI style Tai Chi Chuan (Taijiquan)
http://www.plumpub.com/info/knotebook/boxTClistyle.htm

 

[Xue Sheng]

I've heard of "Yangjia Michuan" (Hidden Tradition/Family) What you guys know about this?

I have never seen or heard of it before, so I am not qualified to make a judgment but this is what I found.

As to Yang secret forms, I would not doubt one existed but I would research it first.

I also once read that the Yang Chengfu once showed one of his students a secret form that was very similar to Chen Cannon fist; I find this claim highly suspect.

Yangjia Michuan
http://aymta.org/
http://www.yangfamilytaichi.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000039.html

 

[Gaoguy]

Scott Rodell of www.grtc.org is a long time student of Wang. He also runs the excellant swordforums.com

 

[Dronak]

Most unfortunately all the 5 families have government competition forms. These forms are not generally taught be the families.

All five have competition forms? I have a book called Competition Routines for Four Styles Taijiquan which, obviously from the title, contains routines for only four of the five family styles. It covers Yang, Chen, Wu from Wu Jianquan (I don't remember which Wu this is), and Sun. The second Wu style isn't included in the book. I wouldn't be surprised if it has a competition form since it's a recognized family style. It does make me wonder why it wasn't included in this book of competition forms though.

 

[Xue Sheng]

All five have competition forms? I have a book called Competition Routines for Four Styles Taijiquan which, obviously from the title, contains routines for only four of the five family styles. It covers Yang, Chen, Wu from Wu Jianquan (I don't remember which Wu this is), and Sun. The second Wu style isn't included in the book. I wouldn't be surprised if it has a competition form since it's a recognized family style. It does make me wonder why it wasn't included in this book of competition forms though.

You are very likely correct, I am very likely in error, I got typing and my fingers got stupid.

Chen, Yang, Wu, Sun all have competition forms that are not generally taught by the families. I am not sure if Wu/Hao has a competition form, I will have to check.

Thanks for keeping me honest

 

[Xue Sheng]

One more and then I will try to restrain myself

Chen Family
Chen Zhenglei Website
http://www.cstjq.com

 

[CrushingFist]

Thanks so much wow!
I'm enjoying all this reading!
Will get back when I'm done . Keep posting folks thanks for keeping it positive!

 

[CrushingFist]

Few good teachers of Baguazhang are available in the United States, and many do not advertise. Many are conservative and in line with Confucian didactic tradition will only reveal internal practices to dedicated students. Known forms (routines) of Bagua Zhang include Fixed Form Eight Palms (定式八&#25484, and the Old Eight Palms (老八&#25484 form, as well as many others

Taijiquan, Xingyiquan, Baguazhang and Yiquan are too damn interesting

 

[Xue Sheng]

Few good teachers of Baguazhang are available in the United States, and many do not advertise. Many are conservative and in line with Confucian didactic tradition will only reveal internal practices to dedicated students. Known forms (routines) of Bagua Zhang include Fixed Form Eight Palms (定式八&#25484, and the Old Eight Palms (老八&#25484 form, as well as many others

Taijiquan, Xingyiquan, Baguazhang and Yiquan are too damn interesting

Since my experience tends to be with Chinese Martial arts teacher I can't speak for any other cultural view, and probably little for the Chinese view, but most of the Chinese martial artists that are very good, don't tell anybody. This of course makes them hard to find.

I meant a very good Tai Chi person from Taiwan entirely by accident, once and only once and I have never seen him again, he lives in my area and no one, not even in the Chinese community knows who or where he is. And I know someone else from Northern China that I recently found out, much to my surprise had been training in and is very good at police/military type San Da (San Shou) for over 25 years.

That is just the way it is when you train Chinese Martial Arts

 

[CrushingFist]

You are right. And those are the best ones actually.

 

[CrushingFist]

I'm still researching taking my time with the different styles of Taiji, diff styles of Xingyi and Bagua. I probably want to learn Xingyi first, then Bagua then Taiji but who knows.

So i been reading more of the Yangjia Michuan since a long time online friend I use to have told me about it , He had studied other arts I was interested a few months ago (Bujinkan, and others) .

Yangjia Michuan Taijiquan (Yang Family Hidden Tradition T'ai Chi Ch'uan) .
"This vigorous and complete martial arts system, which includes basic exercises, the 13 postures (an introductory form), a one hour long form (127 postures), push hands, push hand exercises, and numerous weapons forms, as well as a deep foundation in neigong breathing practice, is taught world wide"

Who can tell me more about it ?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm still researching taking my time with the different styles of Taiji, diff styles of Xingyi and Bagua. I probably want to learn Xingyi first, then Bagua then Taiji but who knows.

So i been reading more of the Yangjia Michuan since a long time online friend I use to have told me about it , He had studied other arts I was interested a few months ago (Bujinkan, and others) .

Yangjia Michuan Taijiquan (Yang Family Hidden Tradition T'ai Chi Ch'uan) .
"This vigorous and complete martial arts system, which includes basic exercises, the 13 postures (an introductory form), a one hour long form (127 postures), push hands, push hand exercises, and numerous weapons forms, as well as a deep foundation in neigong breathing practice, is taught world wide"

Who can tell me more about it ?

The old Chinese saying is learn Xingyi first then Bagua then Tai Chi. But that is by no means a guide to follow, do what you like first and you may decide that that is enough. There are a lot of martial artists that are very good and only do 1 style. But there are also a lot of Bagua people that know Xingyi and vice versa.

 

[CrushingFist]

True. Well whatever floats the boat right
I'm sailing lets see