Different flavor between Judo and Chinese wrestling (SC)

[Gerry Seymour]

That grip break method doesn't work for me. Does it work for you?

Yes, when done right, it will break a grip. Unless the other guy controls the situation to take the opportunity away (a skill set that can cancel a skill set).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I only use it to break the front belt hold because I can slide back my feet and move back my waist to generate the maximum amount of power. Even that, if my opponent has monster grip, it's still hard to break that grip. I have to use my arm to strike on his elbow joint instead. In one tournament when I did that, all the audience started to yell at me as if I had used illegal move. For front belt hold (I hate that hold), it's legal to use your arm to strike on your opponent's elbow joint in SC tournament. Not sure it's legal in Judo or not.

A belt hold seems like it is actually stronger, because the fingers can wrap around the belt. The fold of the sleeve limits that grip power.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yes, when done right, it will break a grip. Unless the other guy controls the situation to take the opportunity away (a skill set that can cancel a skill set).

I'm talking about 2.30 in this clip. IMO, that breaking grip method just cannot generate enough power to break a monster grip. Of course when your opponent tries to break your grip, if you give him a quick shaking, you won't allow him to generate his initial breaking power.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A belt hold seems like it is actually stronger, because the fingers can wrap around the belt. The fold of the sleeve limits that grip power.

When you grab on the lapel, your fingers can dig into his jacket too. One of my favor tricks is to drop my elbow over my opponent's grip. I then make another circle to let my jacket to wrap around his fingers that he can't pull it out. After about 2 circles, my opponent will tab out.

Have you even experienced that - your fingers are caught by your opponent's jacket that you can't pull out?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When you grab on the lapel, your fingers can dig into his jacket too. One of my favor tricks is to drop my elbow over my opponent's grip. I then make another circle to let my jacket to wrap around his fingers that he can't pull it out. After about 2 circles, my opponent will tab out.

Have you even experienced that - your fingers are caught by your opponent's jacket that you can't pull out?

Yep, we use it - and try to avoid it. I have students keep their sleeves a bit short (above the wrist) to avoid accidental entanglement.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm talking about 2.30 in this clip. IMO, that breaking grip method just cannot generate enough power to break a monster grip. Of course when your opponent tries to break your grip, if you give him a quick shaking, you won't allow him to generate his initial breaking power.

Yeah, if the grip is well-made and the guy is strong, it's tough to get that free. The lapels on a lot of Judo gis now have a foam insert that makes it big for most hands to grip, so this is more likely to work. Personally, I'm more likely to just leave that grip and use the fact that he can't hit me or defend with that hand.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Personally, I'm more likely to just leave that grip and use the fact that he can't hit me or defend with that hand.

With grips on me, my opponent can't hit me but he can shake me. I don't like that.

At 0.08 - 0.10.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The principle "shaking" is commonly used in SC?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

With grips on me, my opponent can't hit me but he can shake me. I don't like that.

At 0.08 - 0.10.

Yeah, if given a chance. There are ways to prevent that, too. It's all situational, as usual. Remember that my training isn't for competition, so if he has one hand grabbing my sleeve, I have one-half more weapon for offense than he has, and don't have to watch for strikes from that side. If he has both grabbing (as in that GIF), I should be able to inflict damage before he can make that shaking too problematic.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

if he has one hand grabbing my sleeve, I have one-half more weapon for offense than he has, and don't have to watch for strikes from that side. If he has both grabbing (as in that GIF), I should be able to inflict damage before he can make that shaking too problematic.

Here is an example that your opponent has both grips on you but you can't punch him.

- A has right side forward. B has left side forward.
- A steps in his right leg to the left side of B's left leg (B's side door - blind side).
- A uses right hand to grab on B's left wrist (B's left arm is not free now).
- A's left hand grabs on B's left lapel.
- A uses stealing step to move his left leg behind his right leg. At the same time his right hand also grabs on B's left lapel (B's right hand can't reach A).
- A then move back his right leg and use both hands to cast B in a counter-clockwise circle and down to the ground.

In the whole process, B's hands don't have any chance to touch on A's body.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Here is an example that your opponent has both grips on you but you can't punch him.

- A has right side forward. B has left side forward.
- A steps in his right leg to the left side of B's left leg (B's side door - blind side).
- A uses right hand to grab on B's left wrist (B's left arm is not free now).
- A's left hand grabs on B's left lapel.
- A uses stealing step to move his left leg behind his right leg. At the same time his right hand also grabs on B's left lapel (B's right hand can't reach A).
- A then move back his right leg and use both hands to cast B in a counter-clockwise circle and down to the ground.

In the whole process, B's hands don't have any chance to touch on A's body.

Why is B standing still through the first few steps of that, rather than doing something? You're right - once he's there on the blind side with two grips and a foot to block the step, it's a bad position. But, again, you're pointing at a point far into a series, where counters have already been skipped.

B had an opportunity to counter at the first grip. If someone has a grip on me (and holds tight) I can make it more difficult to take that step to my blind side. If he makes that step (I fail to stop him), then I'd be changing position or striking (elbow with the gripped side if he doesn't keep pressure down). If he gets to that second grip (I fail to stop him), there are still some counters, but I've failed twice on this sequence already, so my chances are getting slimmer.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Personally, I'm more likely to just leave that grip and use the fact that he can't hit me or defend with that hand.

B had an opportunity to counter at the first grip.

This is my point. B should respond to A's 1st grip and don't wait for A's 2nd grip. It may be too late by then.

 

[paitingman]

With grips on me, my opponent can't hit me but he can shake me. I don't like that.

At 0.08 - 0.10.

These guys are legit. Are you connected with them in any way?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

These guys are legit. Are you connected with them in any way?

They are my SC brother David C. K. Lin's students. You can get their contact through the ACSCA website.

Carolina NC/SC Chapters

Combat Shuai-Chiao Main Page

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is my point. B should respond to A's 1st grip and don't wait for A's 2nd grip. It may be too late by then.

At the first grip, I don't need to break the grip to respond to it. I'm as likely as not to leave the grip in place, but that doesn't mean I stand and stare at it.