different enviornments

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hand2handCombat

Guest
when training a MA, your in a gym where theres pads, equipment, and controlled sparring. but when in a street fight, theres no control, no one to break it up, and instead of pads there are concrete floors.

will an art be as effective, less effective, or more effective in a street enviornment?
 
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tonbo

Guest
It's going to depend a lot on the environment. Things may be more difficult on hills, on ice, etc. There really isn't a blanket answer for this.

However, that's all external. The art itself won't be affected by the situation.....but how the martial artist chooses how to apply it will be.

The martial artist is the major variable in this situation. Has he/she trained for other than ideal situations? Will he/she panic if not in a dojo? Those are the more crucial "environmental" concerns......

Just my 2 yen worth.....

Peace--
 
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Wertle

Guest
That brings up an interesting idea, though. Do you guys sometimes have classes outside the dojo? Sometimes we have outdoor classes on the lawn, and sometimes we have street-clothes-and-shoes classes in the parking lot. One of my classes is at a church that's expanding and building a new section, so the church bought a out a house that they would possibly have to tear down. They've had classes in the house before, sort of like practicing self defense in a home setting.

Has anyone else had out-of-dojo classes before? Any interesting ones.
 
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J-kid

Guest
If you wanna get better at street fights challeng people not in MA to a sparing match with basic rules no head butts no kick to the nutz and no pulling of hair. true in a real fight those things happen but if you do this you start to see what people do./ that is one of the many things i have done to get better at fighting. What they mostly do is try swing crazy punchs and then when they realize it dosnt work they go for a trip from behind your leg. i end the fight way befor then with a submittion KO or somthing try it out get a feel for what your would be enemy dos. Trust me and try
 

Cthulhu

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Originally posted by Wertle

That brings up an interesting idea, though. Do you guys sometimes have classes outside the dojo? Sometimes we have outdoor classes on the lawn, and sometimes we have street-clothes-and-shoes classes in the parking lot. One of my classes is at a church that's expanding and building a new section, so the church bought a out a house that they would possibly have to tear down. They've had classes in the house before, sort of like practicing self defense in a home setting.

Has anyone else had out-of-dojo classes before? Any interesting ones.

We have one day a week where we train in a park (though I've missed the last couple...grumblegrumble). Training on wet concrete is interesting, to say the least...you really need to watch your footwork. Training on a grassy slope is also interesting...especially when your instructor keeps forcing you to step in a friggin' hole.

Cthulhu
 
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sweeper

Guest
I recval an interview or an article with dan inosanto where he basicly said you should train in any invironment you have access to just to see the strengths/weeknesses of your ability.


I have never sparred all out on concrete, in fact never gone with takedowns or kicks on concrete, just boxing. spar with freinds where ever we end up.
 
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hand2handCombat

Guest
what is more preferable on concrete, strike or grapple?
 
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Chiduce

Guest
If had serious questions concerning my street combat effectiveness. I would start to incorporate street tactical training into my workout. Training in walk-by front, side and rear; as well as jog-by front side and rear attacks, with and without weapons. I woud also consider the brisk walk-up frontal , rear, and side confrontations with and without weapons. Don't forget the use of the partner of the opposite sex lure, etc, etc, etc,!
Sincerely, In Humility;
Chiduce!
 
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lvwhitebir

Guest
Originally posted by hand2handCombat

what is more preferable on concrete, strike or grapple?

There are a lot of variables to consider (e.g., Fighting/sparring or self-defense, Single or multiple opponents, etc). On the surface concrete offers a good foothold for strikers and a bad landing surface for grapplers.

For self-defense I wouldn't go to the ground myself unless there was no other choice. You always want to have an escape (to me it's only self defense if you're trying to escape).

For sparring/fighting it depends on who's hitting the ground first, I'd say. I like to go with the flow, but it's my preference to go to the ground when I can. I find I have better control there. I can keep him from trying to get in any really good shots and can immobolize him (well at least that's my goal). If he hits the ground first, he feels the pain of the impact, not me.

WhiteBirch
 
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hand2handCombat

Guest
today, in my swimming class. i went to hit the showers. went down, i saw a dog. so i acted as if it wasnt there. the floor was slippery(very), i couldnt run away if it gone at me. im so lucky nothing happend
 
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fanged_seamus

Guest
Environment is KEY to your effectivenss -- a striker is dead meat if he/she can't get good footing (like on ice), and a grappler wouldn't want to have to roll around in an alley filled with broken glass or go to the floor on a staircase, I imagine.

I also don't think you can train for EVERY environmental consideration -- too many things in the world to plan for. Granted, you can train on common surfaces (pavement, gravel, etc.) and improve your adaptability accordingly. It definitely wouldn't HARM you to train that way.

In American Kenpo, "environmental awareness" is stressed. We use "12 considerations," twelve things that we need to constantly be thinking about in conflict situations -- and the first and most important is "environment." It's really just a mind-set issue, but it helps me to remember not to take stupid risks or endanger myself unneccessarily.

I say train in the common environments when you can, and change your mindset so that you think about how the immediate environment will affect you ability to defend yourself should you need to.

Tad Finnegan
 
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hand2handCombat

Guest
are there any underwater martial arts out there or is anyone working on developing one?
 
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sweeper

Guest
unless I'm mistaken navy SEALs have underwater combat training, don't know any though so I couldn't ask and find out..

there are alot of people who practice grappling underwater, I have heard it's alot of fun because you can move in three dimensions and your boyance kind of negates gravity.
 
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tonbo

Guest
There was a guy on the web some time back that had a web page dedicated to underwater MA--they trained in full wetsuits and in the ocean, if I remember correctly. I think he was based in Florida, but I am not sure.

It seemed to me that they did a lot of grappling, as well as some knife work, all geared towards being able to defend yourself while scuba diving.

Wish I had kept that link, but it's long gone......

Good point about the new "dimensions" in underwater fighting, though. More directions to move in and be ganked from; also forces your technique to be very, very different.....

I would like to work on underwater arts, but I don't think that I will ever have cause to use them, unless I suddenly turn into James Bond (and THAT ain't gonna happen!!!).....:D

Peace--
 
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Wertle

Guest
are there any underwater martial arts out there or is anyone working on developing one?

We used to have annual suieijutsu clinics, which were excellent fun! The first portion of them had more historical value, as I'm not going to put on my samurai armor and storm a fort through a moat anytime soon.

But the second portion was devoted to self defense techniques in the water. I remember one year we did knife defenses. Lot's of dunking involved
 
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sweeper

Guest
also I might note that alot of people train in water, either shadow boxing or running or doing forms, just for the resistance. a couple of times my soccer team practiced in a lake.. it's actualy kinda helpfull.. not quite what you mean Ia ssume though.
 
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islandtime

Guest
Originally posted by hand2handCombat

when training a MA, your in a gym where theres pads, equipment, and controlled sparring. but when in a street fight, theres no control, no one to break it up, and instead of pads there are concrete floors.

will an art be as effective, less effective, or more effective in a street enviornment?
.........................................................................................

Lets add lighting to this and how drunk the other people are..Techniques that work on sane and sober people tend to glance off or not work on people that have had chemicals coursing through their systems..Not to mention their buddies willing to lend a hand..A single fight often turns to multiple attackers
Most all my street fights were in crappy lighting and bad footing..

Lower stances, more calmness and focus really helps

More realistic training in and out of the dojo helps a lot in these situations


Gene Gabel:asian:
 
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tonbo

Guest
Thanks, Bod!!

Yep, that's the link I remember--even without the pictures (they didn't come up for me; I don't know if they are actually on there). Outta Hawaii, too......I shoulda known...;)

Anyway, thanks!

Peace--
 
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hand2handCombat

Guest
thats the one i visited once but couldnt find it again, thanks a lot.

SOUND REALLLY FUN
 

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