Did Colorado shooter single out Cinemark theater because it banned guns?

Discussion in 'The Study' started by Big Don, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    [h=1]Did Colorado shooter single out Cinemark theater because it banned guns?[/h] By John Lott
    Published September 10, 2012
    | FoxNews.com EXCERPT:




    With 12 dead and 58 wounded, the July 20th shooting at the Cinemark Century 16 Theater in Aurora, Colorado was sure to result in a lawsuit. On Friday, the first suit was announced, claiming Cinemark has “primary responsibility.” The theater did have responsibility for the attack, but not for the reasons that the lawyers bringing the case think.
    The lawyer bringing the suit, Attorney Marc Bern, with the New York city law firm of Napoli, Bern, Ripka and Scholonik, suggested the theater should have had security guards the night of the attack. Yet, checking bags or metal detectors at the front of the theater that night wouldn’t have prevented the attack. The killer brought his guns in through an emergency backdoor.
    Armed security guards at movie theaters are rare in low crime areas, such as Aurora, especially on less crowded weeknights. And, with an audience fleeing the theater, armed guards may have experienced difficulty getting quickly inside.
    So why did the killer pick the Cinemark theater? You might think that it was the one closest to the killer’s apartment. Or, that it was the one with the largest audience.
    Yet, neither explanation is right. Instead, out of all the movie theaters within 20 minutes of his apartment showing the new Batman movie that night, it was the only one where guns were banned. In Colorado, individuals with permits can carry concealed handgun in most malls, stores, movie theaters, and restaurants. But private businesses can determine whether permit holders can carry guns on their private property.
    Most movie theaters allow permit holders carrying guns. But the Cinemark movie theater was the only one with a sign posted at the theater’s entrance.
    A simple web search and some telephone calls reveal how easily one can find out how Cinemark compared to other movie theaters. According to mapquest.com and movies.com, there were seven movie theaters showing "The Dark Knight Rises" on July 20th within 20 minutes of the killer’s apartment at 1690 Paris St, Aurora, Colorado. At 4 miles and an 8-minute car ride, the Cinemark’s Century Theater wasn't the closest. Another theater was only 1.2 miles (3 minutes) away.
    There was also a theater just slightly further away, 10 minutes. It is the "home of Colorado's largest auditorium," according to their movie hotline greeting message. The potentially huge audience ought to have been attractive to someone trying to kill as many people as possible. Four other theaters were 18 minutes, two at 19 minutes, and 20 minutes away. But all of those theaters allowed permitted concealed handguns.
    So why would a mass shooter pick a place that bans guns? The answer should be obvious, though it apparently is not clear to the media – disarming law-abiding citizens leaves them as sitting ducks.



     
  2. Grenadier

    Grenadier Administrator Staff Member

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    While James Holmes is certainly a nutjob, he's also quite intelligent, and he showed quite a bit of planning in this endeavor.

    Even though he probably knew that lawful concealed firearms were forbidden in that theater, I suspect that it was simply one big piece of the puzzle, since the layout of that theater worked to his advantage as well. All in all, he picked the perfect venue for his crime.

    Of course, we could always fall under the assumption that he simply didn't see the "no guns allowed" signs...
     
  3. crushing

    crushing Grandmaster

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    Holmes may have learned from Kiarron Parker's mistakes. Sorry, you may not have heard of Kiarron Parker who went on a shooting spree at a church in Aurora in April 2012, but the shooting spree was short lived as Parker was taken out by an off duty cop that was carrying a concealed weapon.
     
  4. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    Wouldn't you pick a place to go that you could factor in a high probability that you wouldn't face armed resistance? Common sense
     
  5. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    It may have affected his location selection if he knew this--though we were in a Cinemark theatre in Col. Springs a month earlier and noticed no sign--but I expect he would've done this somewhere regardless.

    The flip side is it gives them grounds to refuse entry to someone carrying. Not long ago a man shot himself in the thigh when his concealed weapon fell to the ground in a dark movie theatre. He only hurt himself. They were likely thinking of smaller-scale cases.
     
  6. blindsage

    blindsage Master of Arts

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    So now it's the fault of people exercising their freedoms. I get it. Restricting freedom is bad, but people shouldn't exercise it because, well you know, it's goes against the other ideas you hold dear. Freedom is good, until you don't like it.
     
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  7. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    Should the private theatre owner have the right to restrict guns on its premises?
     
  8. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    The property owner should be allowed to do anydamnthing he likes, provided it doesn't endanger his customers. That said, should his policies endanger his customers, they should sue. Oh, they are.
     
  9. Tames D

    Tames D RECKLESS

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    Seriouly, if his policies are legal, how can they sue? They enter at their own risk?
     
  10. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    The victims and family of the Aurora movie theatre shootout which resulted in the death of 12 and left 59 others severely injured when James Egan Holmes allegedly opened fire at a midnight screen of the Dark Knight Rises are filing a class action suit against the movie house.

    The case is taken on the New York Based law firm that represented 9/11 families. The victims and families are supposedly suing the Cinemark Theater for lax security during the screening of the highly anticipated Batman movie.
    Read more at http://www.lawyerherald.com/article...-shooting-victims-sue.htm#OMR3zyATA54voiDp.99

    ====================
    If enough people have carry permits to warrant a sign telling them they can't carry in the theater, the theater should damn sure make sure no one does...


     
  11. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    Just because they are suing does not mean a heck of a lot.
    All it takes is a willing lawyer, really, and the $$ to file it.

    There are a few (a lot actually) doctor's offices here that state 'no gun on premises'
    Should I anticipate a shooting?

    Personally I wonder why the signs go up.
     
  12. Sensei Payne

    Sensei Payne Black Belt

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    Your right...they do have the right to restrict guns, they own the place...but when you infringe on constitutional rights, and people get hurt....you get Sued.

    Tis the American Way.
     
  13. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    Ah, sorry... people do not have t go to the movies.

    It's private property. Like the mall. You don't have the expectation of freedom of speech there either.

    As to the gun toting people...

    Yeah, I want a bunch of scared civilians open fire in a crowded movie theatre...
     
  14. Sensei Payne

    Sensei Payne Black Belt

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    Gun laws only protect Criminals. So banning Guns anywhere sets a filter...filtering out all the good law abiding citizens who open carry, and allowing in anyone who wants to break the rules/laws in..

    Then again, this is why the TSA is starting to go to places such as Malls, Football games, movie theaters, ETC...

    But I refuse to lose more rights in the name of a false sense of Safety.
     
  15. billc

    billc Grandmaster

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    I don't think the victims should sue the movie theater. The theater didn't do anything wrong, the theater chain was a victim of this guy as well.
     
  16. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    That has nothing to do with gun laws.


    Gun laws are what the government (we the people) give you.
    What the mall and the movie theater give you is a policy how they want to conduct business on private property.

    Nobody had a problem with the no gun policy before that day...I have my doubts the ushers were screening for guns. If they even bothered to look for contraband candy....
     
  17. Haakon

    Haakon Blue Belt

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    You think that matters in a society where criminals can sue when they get injured committing a crime? People can sue over virtually anything, doesn't mean they have a chance of winning but it can cost the defendant massive sums of money to defend themselves, hence why so many settle out of court even if they didn't do anything wrong.
     
  18. Tames D

    Tames D RECKLESS

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    Yes I think it matters. Laws need to change where someone defending themselves in court DO NOT have to pay legal fee's if they win their case. The scumbags that bring on these outragious lawsuits need to bear the cost when they lose. But that will probably never happen. Our government seems to like defending criminals.
     
  19. blindsage

    blindsage Master of Arts

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    Sooooo, they're suing for lax security, which has nothing to do with a ban on firearms by patrons.
     
  20. blindsage

    blindsage Master of Arts

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    If it infringed on constitutional rights they wouldn't be allowed to do it. The constitutional right is for the PRIVATE property owner to decide whether guns are allowed on their property or not.
     

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