DF: Combat Tai Chi, Qigong, Bagua

[Clark Kent]

Combat Tai Chi, Qigong, Bagua
By Mike Brewer - Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:36:21 GMT
Originally Posted at: Deluxe Forums
====================

This is mostly for KOTF, TTE, and our more combat-oriented Chinese Martial Arts practitioners. I'm aware that, coming from me, this is apt to get taken the wrong way, so I'm going to post the initial question and then do my best to step away and let the discussion roll. I'll also say at the front end that I do not in any way mean to insinuate anything negative here.

Several people here can be routinely depended upon to post very negatively in reference to MMA, BJJ, etc. in terms of their use in slef-defense training. In fact, those discussions have been going on here for years. They could be set side by side and compared, and we'd see the same treadmill discussion time and again. As a result, I DO NOT want to get into an argument about what is or is not valid for self-defense. I'm personally a big believer in the idea that the firstest with the mostest is the bestest, no matter what the style. I personally believe that anyone, trained or not, with the will, intent, and ability to surprise a potential attacker with audacity and violence of action is going to do really well in a fight. Further, I think that if you take that attitude and add virtually ANY training to it, that person will get better and more capable. Long story short, I really do believe that it's the person, not the style, and I believe that the style is just a matter of preference. I mention this so that my position is clear from the outset; so that everybody understands that I think tae kwon do, praying mantis, boxing, or any other martial art has the potential to be very effective. With that said:

Can anyone give some examples of what makes things like Tai Chi, Bagua, Qigong, etc. effective for fighting? We hear all kinds of talk about training to fight, and I've read I don't know how many posts about how the sport attitude will get you killed. So what - SPECIFICALLY - is the difference? I'm looking for comparisons in five primary areas, so if we could look at these and try to stick to them, it would be helpful:

1. What specific sorts of techniques make these arts effective and efficient for self-protection?
2. What training methods do you use to make them realistic and appropriate for real-life?
3. How do you incorporate resistance and opposition into the training?
4. To what degree is physical conditioning stressed?
5. And finally, is training this way enough all by itself to address modern reality?

Thanks guys. Again, I'm not trying to make this a flame war, and I don't want to hear a bunch of **** about MMA or other sports. I want to hear specifics about the CMAs listed and others that apply. Most of these discussions seem to revolve around theory and philosophy, and I'd really like to see us hang some substance on those tired old bones.


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[Formosa Neijia]

The problem with the post and all its questions is that it comes from the Western mindset that has produced MMA/NHB training. The poster will never understand why there are differences between the arts -- the answers he seeks -- because he doesn't share the mindset of the CIMA.

Notice that the questions are all basically how can CIMA be made to fit a NHB mold. It never seems to occur to him that CIMA might be trying to do something different.

This is THE main problem is trying to get Westerners to learn CIMA.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The problem with the post and all its questions is that it comes from the Western mindset that has produced MMA/NHB training. The poster will never understand why there are differences between the arts -- the answers he seeks -- because he doesn't share the mindset of the CIMA.

Notice that the questions are all basically how can CIMA be made to fit a NHB mold. It never seems to occur to him that CIMA might be trying to do something different.

This is THE main problem is trying to get Westerners to learn CIMA.

Didn't you know.. hundreds of years of training was just so all MA styles could jump into the cage and fight MMA style to prove their validity