Demonstrating Kata/Tuls during testing

[Azulx]

I have recently began wondering the purpose of demonstrating every kata one knows at testing. Is there a purpose to this? Is that nay better than doing just the form you learned for that specific belt? It's something I've done just because, and never really looked deeper into the purpose.

For me personally, I make my students responsible for knowing all their forms so they still spend time practicing them and so they can help teach the lower ranks. Also so they can see their progression over the years doing the basic forms. Other than that , besides using the forms as training tools themselves, I have trouble thinking of what else would be the purpose of doing this.

 

[Headhunter]

Because then you get black belts who can't even do white belt forms because they haven't practiced then they look stupid

 

[Azulx]

Because then you get black belts who can't even do white belt forms because they haven't practiced then they look stupid

That was always something baffling to me. Granted my experience with white belts forms across styles are limited, but the few I've been exposed to are super basic. Any black belt with at least 2 years experience should be able to figure it out after maybe a few minutes of reviewing.

 

[Jaeimseu]

I personally hate doing that. It makes testing unnecessarily long, IMO. I require black belt candidates to know all previous forms, but I keep them accountable by randomly selecting which forms they actually perform at testing.


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[Azulx]

I personally hate doing that. It makes testing unnecessarily long, IMO. I require black belt candidates to know all previous forms, but I keep them accountable by randomly selecting which forms they actually perform at testing.


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What about your gup ranks?

 

[Jaeimseu]

What about your gup ranks?

I only require current forms for color belts. I try to get every testing group out in an hour or less if possible.


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[Azulx]

I only require current forms for color belts. I try to get every testing group out in an hour or less if possible.


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Interesting, so one form , breaking , and sparring?

 

[Jaeimseu]

Interesting, so one form , breaking , and sparring?

They also perform a basic pattern and some sparring combinations.


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[Headhunter]

I

I personally hate doing that. It makes testing unnecessarily long, IMO. I require black belt candidates to know all previous forms, but I keep them accountable by randomly selecting which forms they actually perform at testing.


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whats wrong with long tests? Means students have to work hard. Which is what I want I'd feel cheated if I did a test that was the same length of time as a regular class. If I'm testing I want to be pushed to the limit mentally and physically. I want to come out of that test exhausted and sore the next day. Shows that I really pushed myself for it. My first Krav Maga grading took 4 and a half hours. Everyone was exhausted by he end but none of us were complaining because we knew we'd pushed ourselves hard for it. To me that's what a test should be

 

[Jaeimseu]

I

whats wrong with long tests? Means students have to work hard. Which is what I want I'd feel cheated if I did a test that was the same length of time as a regular class. If I'm testing I want to be pushed to the limit mentally and physically. I want to come out of that test exhausted and sore the next day. Shows that I really pushed myself for it. My first Krav Maga grading took 4 and a half hours. Everyone was exhausted by he end but none of us were complaining because we knew we'd pushed ourselves hard for it. To me that's what a test should be

I push my students hard in class. I’m testing them on their ability to demonstrate knowledge and application of what they’ve learned. It doesn’t take me all that long to assess students on test day.

Another, perhaps more important consideration for me, is that the majority of my students are children, and I’d prefer the family enjoy coming to watch their kids perform. I do this for a living and even I don’t want to watch a four and a half hour test.

Were you actively doing something the entire four hours or was some of that sitting and waiting?


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[wab25]

For me personally, I make my students responsible for knowing all their forms so they still spend time practicing them and so they can help teach the lower ranks. Also so they can see their progression over the years doing the basic forms. Other than that , besides using the forms as training tools themselves, I have trouble thinking of what else would be the purpose of doing this.

You answered your own question there. (bolded in your statement)

You won't be able to teach things you don't know. A student should be showing progression as they advance. A white belt belt doing the first form should be different than a brown belt doing the same form and that should be different than a nidan doing the same form.

That was always something baffling to me. Granted my experience with white belts forms across styles are limited, but the few I've been exposed to are super basic. Any black belt with at least 2 years experience should be able to figure it out after maybe a few minutes of reviewing.

Yes. They are basic. But they are basic, not because they are easy, but because they are the foundation for the rest of the art, forms and all. The better your foundation, the better everything else is.

 

[Headhunter]

I push my students hard in class. I’m testing them on their ability to demonstrate knowledge and application of what they’ve learned. It doesn’t take me all that long to assess students on test day.

Another, perhaps more important consideration for me, is that the majority of my students are children, and I’d prefer the family enjoy coming to watch their kids perform. I do this for a living and even I don’t want to watch a four and a half hour test.

Were you actively doing something the entire four hours or was some of that sitting and waiting?


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Each to their own but to me my priority in teaching is teaching martial arts and making sure the students deserve their rank and not a family day out for the parents but everyone's got their own style.

And yes we were doing something the whole time either attacking or defending

 

[Jaeimseu]

Each to their own but to me my priority in teaching is teaching martial arts and making sure the students deserve their rank and not a family day out for the parents but everyone's got their own style.

And yes we were doing something the whole time either attacking or defending

I have the same priority, but I assess students during class to determine who deserves to move up in rank. Those students are invited to test, and I want the experience to be positive for all involved. IMO, it’s not an either/or thing. A long grueling test doesn’t mean students are deserving of rank, and a shorter test doesn’t mean that they are not.


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[skribs]

I have recently began wondering the purpose of demonstrating every kata one knows at testing. Is there a purpose to this? Is that nay better than doing just the form you learned for that specific belt? It's something I've done just because, and never really looked deeper into the purpose.

For me personally, I make my students responsible for knowing all their forms so they still spend time practicing them and so they can help teach the lower ranks. Also so they can see their progression over the years doing the basic forms. Other than that , besides using the forms as training tools themselves, I have trouble thinking of what else would be the purpose of doing this.

The biggest advantage I can see is teaching lower ranks.

One thing I think is there's a difference between the rote memorization of the form, and the concepts learned from the form. Quite often, the concepts in Form 1 are retained in Form 7, so you can only practice Form 7 and still maintain those concepts. So when a black belt helps out in the white belt class, they may not remember the specific moves of the form, but they can correct:

• Chamber position
• Stances
• Snap power
• Correct technique (i.e. if the Master says "down block" and the person does outside block)
• Proper step and footwork
• Kiyhap (focused spirit shout)
• Tight fists

Just because the black belt doesn't remember Form 1 (or didn't learn Form 1 because they came from a school with different forms), doesn't mean they can't help out. It just means they help with the concepts and the techniques instead of the rote memorization.

At my school, we have tests for 1 or 2 classes at a time. For example, we have 2 kids white + yellow belt classes that test together, green belt class and blue belt class test together, but purple + orange class is by themselves, and red is by themselves. The white + yellow belts usually take 1.5 hours, the others usually 2+ hours, with the black belt tests at 3-4 hours long. The white belts get more direction, but by green belt you have to have memorized several punch combinations, kick combinations, jump kick combinations, forms, and one-step punch and kick drills. Add in freestyle combinations, sparring, and board breaking, and tests get quite long.

Usually it's 5-8 punch combinations, 5-8 kick combinations, 1-5 forms (5 forms by orange belt, reset to 1 at green belt, and reset to 3 at red, and stay at 3 until black), 3-5 punch defense, 3-5 kick defense, (for adults 3-5 hand grabs). And then account for there being 10-30 people testing, and if there's any mistakes they may have to redo it, and some things (like the punch and kick combos) we generally do several times each as a warmup.

I'm curious how long it would take if I were to "test" myself on everything, instead of just what's required for my next test. No mistakes, no repeats (unless it's a combo that we do on both sides), I'd probably spend at least a few hours on it.

 

[Yokozuna514]

I haven't designed any tests but I surmise that testing katas from the beginning to the most recent will help demonstrate and reinforce many ideas and concepts:

1) Being able to perform all the katas shows the level of practice the student has taken to prepare for the test. We have all seen students 'walk' through katas and although they can do the steps, the level of performance will be commensurate to the amount of practice they have put in to their preparation. If you compare this to a student that performs the katas well beyond the rote memorization phase, which student would you prefer to pour your attention into ?

2) Consistent practice - As many others have said before, requiring the performance of the basic katas at each test means that a student will be required to practice these katas over the years of training. There should be a noticeable improvement at each grade level that they test at. A black belt doing the first form should be noticeably better than a beginner. If they are not, then I would be asking some questions.

3) More emphasis on bunkai as the student progresses within the system - Hopefully the years of practice will cause students to reflect and find deeper meanings within the katas they are doing. Some techniques that initially appeared as blocks could have another application that will give the student a better appreciation of the kata and wider view on how they can use the technique in other situations.

Essentially, I am suggesting that I find it a better approach to consistently test the cumulative knowledge of the student as they progress through the system so that we do not produce students that are solely goal oriented on the next set of techniques to get to their next belt level. We should want them the beginner information to form the foundation of their knowledge as they progress through the learning of the art.

My two cents.....