Deflection and the cubic diagonal of a narrow rectangular prism

[lansao]

I'd like to feel the difference between those two approaches in blocking.

When we hang I can show you what it feels like. Really can't find a better word than my Sifu's "filleting."

 

[Gerry Seymour]

(Sidenote, I'm going to have to Google all these sao, because I haven't a clue what you're talking about )

Meh, knowing what you're talking about is overrated. I've been participating on the WC forum for a couple of years now, and so far I know what bong sau and biu jee are. Kind of. I figure 8 or 9 more years, I'll be able to participate intelligently in the discussions.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In any sort of "fighting stance", or if already moving, then the slightest shift of weight or twist of foot can take you off line sufficiently.

But, most of our partner drills start with the defender just standing. Not "in a stance". That being, it's much harder to do a little weight shift or twist and expect it to have the same effect. So that makes it quicker and more reliable to move my arm (body movement can still play a part, but not enough to be primary motion).

We typically start from "shizen tai" (normal stance), too. It's still possible to get small weight shifts pretty quickly to get off-line. Outside of demonstrating the technique, I won't do it without also blocking/parrying/deflecting.

 

[lansao]

Meh, knowing what you're talking about is overrated. I've been participating on the WC forum for a couple of years now, and so far I know what bong sau and biu jee are. Kind of. I figure 8 or 9 more years, I'll be able to participate intelligently in the discussions.

"sao" just means arm, "gerk" means leg. bong, tan, wu, pak, fook, lan, tie, gum, fut, tut, jut, heun, lop, and bil are all proper nouns for specific single arm "sao" or arm movements (often called positions but I don't feel position captures their dynamic nature). Quan sao and Kan sao are two arm positions. The Sil Lum Tao teaches them moving along the median plane and behaves a lot like the alphabet song for memorizing each of them. Here are my Sifu's arms demonstrating each hand position:

Wing Chun Hand Postions

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Here's the video. It's a little long/long-winded but tries to cover on the points of how our footwork works:

Some very similar principles to what I teach, Alan. You guys use different angles and fewer circles than we tend to look at, but the basic principles of how to move are pretty close. One major difference is that we rarely move directly sideways; we normally are either entering or exiting in classical movement (there's a good bit more sideways movement in what I teach, because that's more useful in sparring/striking).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

"sao" just means arm, "gerk" means leg. bong, tan, wu, pak, fook, lan, tie, gum, fut, tut, jut, heun, lop, and bil are all proper nouns for specific single arm "sao" or arm movements (often called positions but I don't feel position captures their dynamic nature). Quan sao and Kan sao are two arm positions. The Sil Lum Tao teaches them moving along the median plane and behaves a lot like the alphabet song for memorizing each of them. Here are my Sifu's arms demonstrating each hand position:

Wing Chun Hand Postions

Hey, quit ruining my ability to post by providing actual information!

 

[lansao]

Hey, quit ruining my ability to post by providing actual information!

Sorry, I’ll make sure to hide and obscure it moving forward as ancient wisdom to be earned with years of subservient study and costly tuition.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sorry, I’ll make sure to hide and obscure it moving forward as ancient wisdom to be earned with years of subservient study and costly tuition.

Much appreciated.

 

[now disabled]

I've become much more circular with my blocking in recent months, tending more and more away from 'bounce'.

I've had (minor) complaints from almost every other student about "blocking too hard" during partner drills, and a few of them started putting their sparring shinguards on their forearms if they knew I was to possibly be their opponent...

It's become more entertaining to deflect differently and have much more effect on their balance.

Becoming more circular are you meaning by that that you are generating more power as you and drawing that from your centre there by the deflection as you put it is much more pronounced ?

 

[pdg]

Becoming more circular are you meaning by that that you are generating more power as you and drawing that from your centre there by the deflection as you put it is much more pronounced ?

Power generation wasn't a concern as to why I started doing it (as long as enough was still there to successfully deflect).

What I mean is that in a 'normal' forearm block, it's a hard linear move that meets forearm to forearm at about mid point.

Instead of that, I started leading with my elbow and turning my arm into the block, so there's more of a slide than an impact.

It means I need to be faster to initiate and have better timing, otherwise they punch my elbow (which I don't mind, but apparently they do )

 

[now disabled]

Power generation wasn't a concern as to why I started doing it (as long as enough was still there to successfully deflect).

What I mean is that in a 'normal' forearm block, it's a hard linear move that meets forearm to forearm at about mid point.

Instead of that, I started leading with my elbow and turning my arm into the block, so there's more of a slide than an impact.

It means I need to be faster to initiate and have better timing, otherwise they punch my elbow (which I don't mind, but apparently they do )

I get what your saying but I would assume that in doing that you will employ more from your centre ...

 

[lansao]

Power generation wasn't a concern as to why I started doing it (as long as enough was still there to successfully deflect).

What I mean is that in a 'normal' forearm block, it's a hard linear move that meets forearm to forearm at about mid point.

Instead of that, I started leading with my elbow and turning my arm into the block, so there's more of a slide than an impact.

It means I need to be faster to initiate and have better timing, otherwise they punch my elbow (which I don't mind, but apparently they do )

Would you be willing to record a video demo?

 

[pdg]

I get what your saying but I would assume that in doing that you will employ more from your centre ...

No, yes, maybe...

You'll have to define "employing your centre" - is it like engaging your core or something else?

 

[now disabled]

No, yes, maybe...

You'll have to define "employing your centre" - is it like engaging your core or something else?

something like that lol

using your hips and drawing the power from the centre and ground up more than just using your arm and shoulder

 

[now disabled]

No, yes, maybe...

You'll have to define "employing your centre" - is it like engaging your core or something else?

think of swinging a sword upwards say from your right side to upper left side in one movement to get it there with maximum power etc you have to employ your centre and your hips and your legs drawing all upwards while remaining balanced

 

[pdg]

Would you be willing to record a video demo?

I'll see if I can come up with something sensible and not too cringeworthy...

something like that lol

using your hips and drawing the power from the centre and ground up more than just using your arm and shoulder

Well, I stand by my "no, yes, maybe" then.

Depending on the start position, the direction of body movement (if any) and anything that's intended afterwards, that sort of "hip twist" can be applied, or not, to either 'version'.

I mean, it's possible to not move, or step back/forward/off line/across line. All or none can include a wind up or not.

 

[now disabled]

I'll see if I can come up with something sensible and not too cringeworthy...



Well, I stand by my "no, yes, maybe" then.

Depending on the start position, the direction of body movement (if any) and anything that's intended afterwards, that sort of "hip twist" can be applied, or not, to either 'version'.

I mean, it's possible to not move, or step back/forward/off line/across line. All or none can include a wind up or not.

ok just a different approach and nothing wrong with that at all

 

[lansao]

I'll see if I can come up with something sensible and not too cringeworthy...



Well, I stand by my "no, yes, maybe" then.

Depending on the start position, the direction of body movement (if any) and anything that's intended afterwards, that sort of "hip twist" can be applied, or not, to either 'version'.

I mean, it's possible to not move, or step back/forward/off line/across line. All or none can include a wind up or not.

I figure all of my videos are cringe worthy. I post them, then feel the cringe haha.

 

[lansao]

I figure all of my videos are cringe worthy. I post them, then feel the cringe haha.

On top of that the worst thing that can happen is I get called a fat, skill-less, attention-seeking, pretentious fake. But there will always be the select few who pay attention and offer real input/feedback. Worth wading through the muck to find them and grow understanding that way.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

On top of that the worst thing that can happen is I get called a fat, skill-less, attention-seeking, pretentious fake. But there will always be the select few who pay attention and offer real input/feedback. Worth wading through the muck to find them and grow understanding that way.

Don't worry, Alan. I won't ever call you pretentious.