defense against a shooter

Discussion in 'High School/College Wrestling' started by JadeDragon3, Feb 6, 2008.

  1. JadeDragon3

    JadeDragon3 Black Belt

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    Besides sprawling, can anybody give me a good defense against someone who is shooting in for a leg. I know that if someone shoots in and gets a leg and their head is to the outside of your body you can do a cross face with your forearm but what else can you do? This can be from a wrestling point of view or a martial arts point of view. Either point of view is fine.
     
  2. kaizasosei

    kaizasosei Master Black Belt

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    first, i think the best is not to let ones leg get grabbed at all. so one would need to do a sprawl-like motion while not really holding the guy too much or leaning on him..just evasion. secondly, i think the most effective way to respond is with a strike- as in a kneestrike(keeping balance!) or elbow or punch...even to the back of the head if necessary. next best is the clothshanger or guilitine choke. or swing around and apply some other kind of choke- shooting does leave you open. if one cannot be fast enough to take the balance of the other, shooting is risky- however if done correctly, the risk can be minimized. -i personally don't like shooting because i feel it leaves me too open. but for ever techinique there is a right application.
    the shooter is expecting contact, so one way would be to get really close and give the illusion of making contact and then step away-maybe hold neck and push down or strike from there- depends also on the strength and stability of the opponent.

    only thing that could go wrong with that is that you get too close and the shooter get a hold-in which case, you may already have forfeited your security.


    there is one supercool move that i worked on for a while. that is, when the opponent shoots in, you stand strong while applying a guilotine choke, your other hand simply grabs the opponents wrist on the same side as own grabbing arm-like one would ride a bike. then, one puts ones own head under the arm/armpit of the opponent-(warning: this leaves extremely vulnerabel because if opponent clamps down his arm, he squeezes your head like a zit basically also guilotinestyle but inside of biceps/armpit)
    so, the way that i improved this was to force the opponents arm down-in effect pushing him forcefully in the direction of own head. thing is though, that high chances are, he will resist and that will make the move work perfectly. also, it might be better not to wedge owns head under the armpit in the first place but rather just lower owns head sortof...

    the move is like this, once one has the choke with one hand and the other hand holding the wrist, own head is lowered(like own back of head is on front of opponent shoulder-best)
    own front leg is same side as the choking hand. without letting go of either grip. both wristhold and choke, you start to turn in the direction of the back leg. if choking with right arm, that is clockwise.
    keep turning untill the opponent is behind you with his neck bent back in a nasty way..you can stay there or keep turning which is really disorienting for the opponent,and drop him -the disorientation and superior position gives you considerably sufficient time to apply another move. if this move is done forcefully, it can break the neck in one move. so go easy.
    trick is to push down at the start and when the resistance is there, you just absorb the force and turn. ive made this work a number of times.
    if you hold on tight to the choking arm, it's almost too hardcore to even perform safely.

    j
     
  3. theletch1

    theletch1 Grandmaster

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    From an SD perspective and keeping potential multiple attackers in mind...use his shoulders to turn him away from the attack and take his balance. When he shoots in, drop your hara a little, push down on one shoulder and up on the other as he comes in. Step back with the same leg as the hand pushing down and turn your body. It'll cause him to barrell roll away from you. I doubt it's legal in wresting but works wonders to clear an attacker, avoid the take down and leave you on your feet to deal with other, potential threats.
     
  4. Unkogami

    Unkogami Yellow Belt

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    Yeah, I really don't see that working out against a decent shot. Joe drunk trying to tackle you in a bar maybe, but...
     
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  5. tallgeese

    tallgeese Green Belt

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    Being out of range is one option, but that's easier said than done. So is striking to keep a determined shooter off you. Given the striking option, good jabs and circling at a distance would be my choice.

    When the rubber meets the road, however, a good sprawl is key and probably the only thing that will reliably hold up against a determined takedown.

    Now, there's a good argument from striking from and out of the sprawl, but I'd advise against the knee strike. This is just giving a wrestler what he wants, control of a leg and you're balance. It also limits your mobility. I'd be more inclined to elbows and the like once you're over his back.

    A good guillotine choke will still land on a shooter who's not used to playing against ground fighters. It's something to keep in mind.

    At the end of the day though, there's a reason that the sprawl is the high percentage defense against shots.
     
  6. Old Judoka

    Old Judoka Yellow Belt

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    Your not likely to run into a shooter that hasn't faced a ground fighter, because he probably learned to shoot on a wrestling team or as part of a bjj club....
     
  7. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    1. Conservative approach: Put your

    - right palm in front of your right knee.
    - left palm in front of your left knee.

    When your opponent shoots in, hook your

    - right arm under his left shoulder.
    - left arm under his right shoulder.

    2. Aggressive approach: If his head is

    - straight up, use both of your palms to push back on his fore head (put pressure on his neck).

    [​IMG]

    - parallel to the ground, use both of your palms to push 45 degree down toward yourself (let him to kiss the dirt).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If your opponent gets your leg, you

    - use one hand to push one of his shoulders back (keep him away from getting your back standing leg),
    - use another hand to control one of his arms (restrict his arm mobility),
    - extend your leg between his legs (if he wants your leg, give to him more than he can handle), and
    - play the following game (try to use your leg to attack his leading leg, or drag him down).

     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Maybe if you are retreating as you do this, so you absorb/disperse the inertia, AND he has sturdy clothing on his torso (heavy shirt, jacket, etc.) to provide leverage for your grip (I'd need to try it out...I need a new student who's an experienced shooter). Otherwise, I don't see there being enough leverage at the shoulders to change the shooter's trajectory before he gets to a leg. Once he gets to the leg, there's no chance of this working, since he has an anchor point.
     

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