Daniel K Pai
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Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Pai Lum and Daniel Pai are names that I have seen come up in other discussions. I believe there are some folks on the West Coast who have studied it as well, some folks from the Parker Kenpo lineages. I’ve never known much about him or his methods. This website isn’t particularly informative, but it gives a basic rundown.
Oily Dragon
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The guy I learned from, David L Smith of New London, CT., called it "Pai Lum Pai" and translated it as "Pai's White Dragon" kung-fu ...or something like that. He did not speak Mandarin and I never wrote down the Chinese characters, so honestly it could mean anything. Depending on the character and tones used, pai or bai can mean white, and lum or long can mean dragon. We did go to a tournament in Pennsylvania and met with some other branches of "Pai Lum" there, so I know the guy was a part of a larger association and had studied with Danial K Pai.
But honestly, after moving back to my home state and switching to a verifiable Chinese lineage of Wing Chun (my teacher was a direct student of Yip Man), I just forgot all the Pai Lum stuff. No judgement either way. I just moved on.
"Lum" has never meant "dragon" in any Chinese dialect. If anything, this is one of those little Shaolin easter eggs that crop up from time to time when non-Chinese create schools based on Chinese culture, and haven't spent a whole lot of time learning the language.
"Lum" means what it has always meant in Cantonese, "wood" and I actually think the name of the school is clever, if somewhat limping, mangled, across the language barrier between East and West.
So what does the full name actually mean?
Oily Dragon
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It's a mashup of Daniel K Pai's family name, the Cantonese name of Shaolin (siu lum), and the fact that Pai (really bai) just happens to be Mandarin for white, which refers to the Shaolin legend of Bak (Pai) Mei. Mix these reagents, you get the "White Dragon Warrior Society", a nice Western sounding name, which happened to arrive right about the time Daniel K. Pai handed control of his society over to new blood.
What does it all mean? Chinese is a very hard language to learn, let alone use properly, even for kung fu masters.
^^^^ Yes. This is exactly my understanding too, at least after I switched over to WC some 40 years ago with a Chinese sifu (out of Hong Kong, but fluent in Mandarin as well as Cantonese). However I will say that I have often seen the term "dragon" translated as "long" and "lung" as in the genuine Hakka system sometimes called "Southern Dragon" style (Chinese: 龍形摩橋; pinyin: lóng xíng mó qiáo).
...By the way, how would you translate "Oily Dragon" into Chinese (either Mandarin or Cantonese) using the "roman" (western) alphabet???
Oily Dragon
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...By the way, how would you translate "Oily Dragon" into Chinese (either Mandarin or Cantonese) using the "roman" (western) alphabet???
You long/Yau lung.
The Chinese have a lot of hells.
The Eighteen layers of Chinese Hell - China Underground
Fascinating, ... I´m not sure how it relates to our previous discussion, but still very interesting.
BTW I see that you are a pretty new member here on MartialTalk (joined May 2) and don´t have much on your profile page. So, here's a belated welcome to the forum! How about introducing yourself? What martial arts have you trained, and what´s your background ...that sort of thing.
Oily Dragon
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Fascinating, ... I´m not sure how it relates to our previous discussion, but still very interesting.
BTW I see that you are a pretty new member here on MartialTalk (joined May 2) and don´t have much on your profile page. So, here's a belated welcome to the forum! How about introducing yourself? What martial arts have you trained, and what´s your background ...that sort of thing.
One of the many Chinese hells is called the You-lung chih yu, where a dragon slowly dissolves sinners in drool of boiling oil. I thought it made a funny avatar name.
My martial arts background? I have nothing but kung fu.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
That was pointed out in Big Trouble in Little China.
...er, that covers a lot of territory. What kung-fu? Whose gung-fu? There are literally hundreds of systems and sub-systems of chuan-fa or kuen-sut that could be called "kung-fu". Northern? Southern? Long bridge? Short bridge? Traditional? Modern? Internal? External? Performance oriented wu-shu? Chinese boxing... or Chinese wrestling? Sanda? ...Honestly now, you can do better than that!
Oily Dragon
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...er, that covers a lot of territory. What kung-fu? Whose gung-fu? There are literally hundreds of systems and sub-systems of chuan-fa or kuen-sut that could be called "kung-fu". Northern? Southern? Long bridge? Short bridge? Traditional? Modern? Internal? External? Performance oriented wu-shu? Chinese boxing... or Chinese wrestling? Sanda? ...Honestly now, you can do better than that!
Yes. Yes, I can.
