Create your own form

[Kung Fu Wang]

You can repeat Ernest Hemingway "The old man and the sea" from the 1st word to the last word 10,000 times in your life. It's still Hemingway's book and not yours. If you don't create, you are just a copy machine, no more and no less.

When are you going to create your own form?

 

[Headhunter]

Never

 

[MI_martialist]

What is a form? What are the goals of a form? How is a form created? What elements should it entail? Your post is quite vague...

 

[Midnight-shadow]

I create my own form when I am fighting someone. Does that answer your question?

 

[MI_martialist]

I create my own form when I am fighting someone. Does that answer your question?

Umm, well....my questions were really rhetorical in nature and not really questions...so, no your response did not answer any of my questions. What are you trying to prove? Now, that is a real question...

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Umm, well....my questions were really rhetorical in nature and not really questions...so, no your response did not answer any of my questions. What are you trying to prove? Now, that is a real question...

Pretty sure his response was to the OP...

 

[MI_martialist]

Pretty sure his response was to the OP...

Right, my bad...I read and responded on my phone and thought it was the OP responding.

 

[zzj]

I’ll get back to you in another 20 years...

 

[MI_martialist]

I will go back to my original thoughts...what is form? The term needs definition of we are to speak to it, does it not?

 

[wab25]

You can repeat Ernest Hemingway "The old man and the sea" from the 1st word to the last word 10,000 times in your life. It's still Hemingway's book and not yours. If you don't create, you are just a copy machine, no more and no less.

I find it more helpful to stop after I finish it the first time and try to figure out what I just read. (I frequently pause when reading a book to make sure I understand what was just said before continuing... I have used dictionaries to learn what a new word meant and wiki to get familiar with events the book may be referencing) I like to discuss what I read with others. I like to learn the history and context around which it was written. I like to figure out what the author was try to convey and what it meant to him. I like to figure out what this work means to other people. Most importantly what it means to me. Did I learn anything from the book? Can I apply anything from the book into my life? How does the message in this book change me?

Yes, that means I probably won't get my 10,000th repetition of the book. But to me, somethings are more important than repetition for repetitions sake. I get a lot more out of something, the more I put into it. At a point it should change from being a copy of Hemingway's words to my interpretation of the story. All Shakespearean actors, repeat the same lines, in the same order even... Why are their performances of the same character so different? (hint: they are not simply repeating the lines again and again)

When are you going to create your own form?

I have read thousands of books. But just because I can read books, doesn't mean I can write them. Thats a different skill altogether. Many of your favorite songs were not written by the singer who made it famous. Many very good singers, are not so great at writing songs... thats why they work with song writers. (who sadly, are not as well known as the singer performing the writers work)

Personally, I have plenty of material to read and discuss... I don't anticipate running out anytime soon.

 

[skribs]

You can repeat Ernest Hemingway "The old man and the sea" from the 1st word to the last word 10,000 times in your life. It's still Hemingway's book and not yours. If you don't create, you are just a copy machine, no more and no less.

When are you going to create your own form?

And what is wrong with being a copy machine? Back in the days before the printed press, hand-copying texts is how knowledge was disseminated. People who copied books for others to have access to weren't writing their own books, but they played a pivotal role in the transfer of knowledge.

Martial Arts forms are a transfer of knowledge. They serve different roles in different arts, but they are all a part of a teaching curriculum, and usually were made by people who are smarter than me, at least in the ways of martial arts.

If I am going to buck the system and create my own, I better have a damn good reason. First, I must ask myself these questions:

1. Does my form replace or add on to the curriculum? If I replace something else, does the art suffer by what is lost?
2. Does my form add any value to the curriculum, or is it just a vanity item for it to be "my own"? If it's not adding anything of substance, then I'm bloating the curriculum for the purpose of my ego, and not for the purpose of martial arts.

The only reasons I could see to create your own form is:

• You wish to replace forms which use techniques you do not deem necessary or useful. If this is the case, you better make sure you have a thorough understanding of those techniques. If you are an 8th degree black belt in your art and have spent the last 20 years dissecting your forms and testing the applications, that's one thing. If you're a brand new 2nd degree black belt and you just don't see the point of a certain technique, you probably need more training.
• You wish to add techniques that are not already covered. If this is the case, once again you should understand why they're not covered in your forms. Alternatively, you may need to learn later forms that DO cover the technique.
• You wish to apply the lessons of the forms in a different order or a different way. In this case, you may be creating a new style within your art, or at least a new curriculum and/or way of teaching. If you're going to do this, then you must do a lot more than just one form, and you must make absolutely sure that your way is an improvement in at least some ways.
• You wish to create a new choreography that looks cool.

I've done the last one for the sake of my demonstration team. I took the Palgwe forms we teach at my Taekwondo school, as well as some of the Taegeuk forms and the black belt forms in the Kukkiwon curriculum, added in some stylized transitions, and viola! I have created a form.

But, just like any story you write, this form is derivative of other forms, and there isn't really anything new. My form includes a few pieces that are "my own", but is mostly what has come before me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What is a form?

Form is a set of combos that linked together. For example,

- A book can have 2 sentences, "This is a book. What do I do with the book?".
- A form can have 2 combos, "groin kick, face punch. roundhouse kick, side kick, double under-hooks, bear hug, knee strike, outer hook".

What are the goals of a form?

The form is used for teaching and learning purpose. It records information jus like a book.

How is a form created?

Form is created from a set of partner drills without partner.

What elements should it entail?

It contain

- techniques (vocabulary), and
- principles/strategies (grammar).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But just because I can read books, doesn't mean I can write them.

Someone made the following statement in another forum. It makes sense to me.

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"For me the comparison between shadow boxing and forms is a false one.
At best, at best, doing a form is like doing someone else's shadow boxing rather than your own. It's copying rather than creating."

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And what is wrong with being a copy machine?

No matter how good a copy machine can be, the quality will get worse and worse. 1000 years from today, the final copy will be very poor.

If Bill Gats didn't create Window, today we are still using DOS.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I create my own form when I am fighting someone. Does that answer your question?

Unless you have recorded it, otherwise it's just some valuable information in your mind that others won't be able to use it.

The best way to create a form is from fighting. The following are all good combos to be part of the form.

- groin kick, face punch,
- roundhouse kick, side kick,
- jab, cross, uppercut,
- elbow lock, shoulder lock,
- single leg, foot sweep,
- ...

Here is an example of

- roundhouse kick,
- side kick,
- double under-hooks,
- bear hug,
- knee strike,
- outer hook.

 

[skribs]

No matter how good a copy machine can be, the quality will get worse and worse. 1000 years from today, the final copy will be very poor.

If Bill Gats didn't create Window, today we are still using DOS.

A copy machine, yes. Transcribed copies that are meticulously checked by diligent monks? The Bible was transcribed this way for thousands of years, ensured to such exact detail that every page must be consistent with the previous writing. This is different than copying from a copy with extra noise in the image.

You're also starting to confuse the quality of copies, with the need for innovation. For example, if I were to install MS-DOS onto a computer today, would it be WORSE than MS-DOS in the 1990s? I don't think so. It wouldn't necessarily be as good as Windows, but it's not like DOS itself has gotten worse over time.

And while we're on the subject, you also get things like Vista, which was worse than XP, and Windows 8, which was worse than Windows 7. Just because something is newer, doesn't mean it's better.

Then you get other problems, like how in Windows 10, several pieces of software no longer work, and you have to buy the latest version. I had the issue with a Blu-Ray player that would no longer work after I installed Windows 10, and the only way to get it to play is to buy the new version of the Blu-Ray player for $140. So the "innovation" ends up tacking on extra charges, and I can easily see that a school with "new" forms might list it as a feature they charge extra for.

Form is a set of combos that linked together. For example, a form can have 2 combos, "This is a book. What do I do with this book?".
...
The form is used for teaching and learning purpose. It records information.
...
Form is created from a set of partner drills without partner.
...
It contain

- techniques (vocabulary), and
- principles/strategies (grammar).

This is YOUR definition of a form. And it doesn't seem very consistent. Is it for linking combos together or for rote recording of techniques? Is it for partner drills (which involve failure, counters, and reactions) or is it simply about combinations? Is the goal instruction or as a system of record?

Some people use forms to teach exaggerated precision in the technique. Some use forms to teach combos. Some use forms as a replacement for partner drills when you're at home. Some simply use it as a system of record.

The reason why these questions are asked is because that will define the need for innovation in the form, as well as what type of form you need to create.

If it's simply a record of techniques, there doesn't really need to be any change, unless you add or remove techniques. If the purpose is to teach the techniques and combinations, then simply changing one form or adding a form isn't going to be enough and you have to shift your entire curriculum.

If your form is simply a set of combinations, then you train the form for the combination and do partner drills to work on practical precision and counters and reads. If your form is partner drills without a partner, then the forms will naturally change as your drills change.

The purpose and the design of your forms within your curriculum and style is an important consideration.

 

[pdg]

If Bill Gats didn't create Window, today we are still using DOS.

I don't think so.

The first commercially available window based operating system predates ms windows 1 by 6 years, that was based on a proprietary system from 8 years previous.

Apple, Atari, DR and Commodore all beat MS to a GUI release.

Apart from those (xerox based, hence X windows) there were a number of GUIs available to layer on DOS if you wanted.

What Gates did was market his version and sign supply deals.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't think so.

The first commercially available window based operating system predates ms windows 1 by 6 years, that was based on a proprietary system from 8 years previous.

Apple, Atari, DR and Commodore all beat MS to a GUI release.

Apart from those (xerox based, hence X windows) there were a number of GUIs available to layer on DOS if you wanted.

What Gates did was market his version and sign supply deals.

Bill Gates took GUI from Apple Lisa and tried to apply on PC. I tool GUI from Xerox Star when I worked for IBM (Most Apple Lisa people came from Xerox). If the IBM vice-president didn't cancel my project, Bill Gates Window would not be the only one.

 

[oftheherd1]

No matter how good a copy machine can be, the quality will get worse and worse. 1000 years from today, the final copy will be very poor.

If Bill Gats didn't create Window, today we are still using DOS.

But he created DOS too.

And Linux isn't so bad either.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But he created DOS too.

And Linux isn't so bad either.

Bill Gates did't create DOS. He bought it from someone else ($7500?). At that time, Bill Gates and IBM worked together and tried to develop GUI for IBM PS/2. But at the same time, he developed Window on the side.