of course, but generally someone does something to end the stalemate.
Counters?
- Thread starter Hand Sword
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OP
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True, but that would come on the end of the applier and not the receiver of the holds because they aren't getting the desired result. Could some be explained? What ones have you or anyone else found good as stalemates to those holds?
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Also, since this is about learning and honest conversation, other stylists reading this can give their versions of dealing with thses holds, if applied. How about some non sporting ways?
I use this escape for the rear naked. Seems to work well.....but once your training partner's seen it, you'll need to find other means.
http://www.lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=525
As far as the "non sporting" ones...
I had an altercation with a grappler at one point. He tried choking me with a rear naked variant, and I found it very easy to break his fingers. Battle tested
http://www.lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=525
As far as the "non sporting" ones...
I had an altercation with a grappler at one point. He tried choking me with a rear naked variant, and I found it very easy to break his fingers. Battle tested
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Sounds good. Care to explain it a little bit more? How did you do it?
After I realized I was in a fight and choking (which took decidedly longer than it really should have), I felt his right hand behind my head.
He had the kind of chokehold where you scissors your arms, your "choke arm" grasps your opposite bicep, and your other arm pushes the head forward and down. I hope that's a good enough picture.
I don't remember every detail...it happened pretty quick, but it was a simple motion. I reached for the back of my own head and grabbed his pinky and ring fingers (and some of my own hair- doh!) and ripped them to the right. I held onto them even after I felt them pop and turned into him by continuing to pivot to the right.
He had the kind of chokehold where you scissors your arms, your "choke arm" grasps your opposite bicep, and your other arm pushes the head forward and down. I hope that's a good enough picture.
I don't remember every detail...it happened pretty quick, but it was a simple motion. I reached for the back of my own head and grabbed his pinky and ring fingers (and some of my own hair- doh!) and ripped them to the right. I held onto them even after I felt them pop and turned into him by continuing to pivot to the right.
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Did that break the hold?
Well, yeah. I guess I shoulda mentioned that part,huh?
By allowing me room to turn, he no longer had the airway blocked. But I guess having your fingers broken sucks enough that you're not so worried about that. I was able to face him and get my lungs back. Looking back, I shoulda pounced right away, but I guess my goal was separation and see who was my attacker, not to mention recover. But I held onto those fingers long enough to make him go where I wanted.
By allowing me room to turn, he no longer had the airway blocked. But I guess having your fingers broken sucks enough that you're not so worried about that. I was able to face him and get my lungs back. Looking back, I shoulda pounced right away, but I guess my goal was separation and see who was my attacker, not to mention recover. But I held onto those fingers long enough to make him go where I wanted.
Ybot
Blue Belt
In my experience the best counters are done before the hold is cinched in. At a certain point the only way you'll escape is because of a mistake on the part of the person applying the hold.
As stated before the best defense to a triangle is good posture to begin with. With proper positioning in the guard to begin with it is impossible for someone to apply the triangle. If you fail there you still have a chance as they are applying the lock to posture up looking up at the ceiling and pushing their hips down with both hands. If you can explode straight up all the way to standing (there is a black belt at my school that if I don't go to standing it's lights out every time, and I fight chokes to the last). If you fail there and they lock the choke your chance lies with keeping your trapped arm from being put across their body. Try to put your palms on their belly and pressure against their leg with your trapped arm elbow. From here you can try again to explode up to your feet. If this doesn't work you can tuck your chin and use the palm of the hand that isn't trapped to push against the back of their leg and try to pop your head out. Be aware that if you pop your head out you are now extreemly vulnerable to the oma plata.
Realize that as you go through my last paragraph the odds against you escaping are increasing. In other words your chances of escaping the hold are much better if you can do it in the beginning than if you get to the point where your trying to pop your head out.
As stated before the best defense to a triangle is good posture to begin with. With proper positioning in the guard to begin with it is impossible for someone to apply the triangle. If you fail there you still have a chance as they are applying the lock to posture up looking up at the ceiling and pushing their hips down with both hands. If you can explode straight up all the way to standing (there is a black belt at my school that if I don't go to standing it's lights out every time, and I fight chokes to the last). If you fail there and they lock the choke your chance lies with keeping your trapped arm from being put across their body. Try to put your palms on their belly and pressure against their leg with your trapped arm elbow. From here you can try again to explode up to your feet. If this doesn't work you can tuck your chin and use the palm of the hand that isn't trapped to push against the back of their leg and try to pop your head out. Be aware that if you pop your head out you are now extreemly vulnerable to the oma plata.
Realize that as you go through my last paragraph the odds against you escaping are increasing. In other words your chances of escaping the hold are much better if you can do it in the beginning than if you get to the point where your trying to pop your head out.
Gentle Fist
Master Black Belt
What YBot said. Holds that are truely locked in are not counterable unless the guy applying them slips up. The point of bjj is to avoid bad positions and to counter while the move is being set up.
cohenp
Yellow Belt
Someone mentioned guilotine escapes. One kind of counter I learned for guilotines is to wait until they adjust or open their gaurd for a second. When you feel them open up basically do a headstand and try to get out of their gaurd. Ideally to their side but even half gaurd increases your chances a ton. Anyways once you get to the side you can wipe their arm off and break the choke. I think it would be possible to trap the arm as you break the choke, and then go to a key lock or something along those lines.
