Counter to speed

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu' started by stonewall1350, May 9, 2017.

  1. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I think people underestimate distance, angles and timing and just how important they are.

    I spend a lot of time controlling the distance and training to do so. Down to weight placement of my opponent and my weight placement as an example. (my weight placement for explosiveness) I specifically specialize in trying to create a situation where my opponents weight is either too much on the back foot or too much on the front foot. Either situation with the right distance allows me to utilize my A to B speed to cover the distance and strike my opponent before they can do anything. I set this distance and weight displacement up with fakes and movement with angles to create the proper weight displacement and then it is all about timing.

    Currently I am working on a video project in this area because this skill set is very relevant for IRT practitioners. It doesn't matter your size, attributes, etc. if you can control the distance and utilize the right angles and have the correct timing you will be effective!
     
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  2. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Thanks for the insight. I hope the strikers are paying attention.
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    On the ground, whether you want to create space or eliminate space is fluid. In very general terms, when in an advantageous position, such as top mount, side control, back mount/back control, etc, you will try to eliminate space and control your opponent.

    From a disadvantageous or neutral position, you will generally want to create space and distance. From under any of the positions above, or from guard.

    Now, to be clear, this is not always true. If I want you to drive into me, I will push you away first to get you to push back into me, and then pull you in.
     
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  4. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    To apply the grinding close-in pressure game in a standup striking context, you need something to back your opponent up against. If you're sparring in the middle of an open floor, the faster guy can keep popping in and out, forcing you to make up the speed deficit with some other advantage (timing, footwork, etc). However if you can back your opponent up against an obstruction (wall, ropes, preferably a corner) then you can pin them in place and shut down their speed.
     
  5. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I was explaining and teaching this same thing last night in sparring class in the context of addressing a haymaker. They had difficulty in doing the technique where they would stop short and allow their partner to maintain their root. I'll probably have to do the technique in a free sparring environment before they really understand it. When done correctly the technique causes a shift in the opponents weight distribution and that is needed in order for the technique to be effective. Anything less means that the technique has to be muscled.
     
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  6. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Timing beats speed

    Precision beats power

    ---Conor Mcgregor
     
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  7. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    You can do this against aggressive fighters who press. They have a habit of only wanting to come forward, so when that person goes forward it creates a similar "traffic congestion." In short you are pinning them against their forward advance.
     
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  8. EMT

    EMT Yellow Belt

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    If your opponent is too fast just slow him down with heavy leg kicks. Ups, I think we are coming from a different background :) Anyway, I train Muay Thai but I've still learned a kimura and a few other joint locks just to be more versatile. It won't hurt to mix it up
     
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  9. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    There you have. Everyone gets a blackbelt today lol.
     
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  10. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes this is a skill that can be advantageous whether in striking or takedowns and it takes awhile to learn. Getting your opponent to be on their heels or have forward weight at the right time is a skill that we can work on repeatedly. I have a drill that I utilize with practitioners to demonstrate this. It is a pre-sparring drill all geared at controlling the distance and getting your opponent to place their weight on a leg to their disadvantage at exactly the same time you are putting your weight at an advantageous position to attack. Hard to describe here on the internet but easy to do so in person.

    When I was younger I utilized this but to be honest my A to B speed some times made it possible for me to get away with making mistakes. As an older practitioner I don't want to make those mistakes anymore. So as I age I spend a lot more time on the smaller details so that even as I lose some speed it seems like I haven't because I control the distance, the angles and my timing is better.
     
  11. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Two of the best things I was ever taught - In striking, "when he moves, you move:. (This doesn't necessarily mean let him move first)

    Grappling - "Jiu-jitsu is all about taking away space."

    Simplified, I know, but both have served me well.
     
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  12. KangTsai

    KangTsai 2nd Black Belt

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    I mean speed in its every sense. Reaction speed, thinking speed and physical speed.
     
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Some similarities in standing grappling. Have to include some principles from striking, because of footwork, but otherwise the principles hold.
     
  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Those are not necessarily linked, though. "Thinking speed" is actually mostly pattern recognition (there's not enough time for a lot of conscious thought). "Reaction speed" is also mostly driven by pattern recognition (the earlier you recognize the pattern, the shorter the delay to response). Physical speed is independent of those.

    So, if your comment was about training pattern recognition to speed reactions, I'm with you. Pair that with Brian's point about purposeful strategy and purpose-designed tactics, and you have an effective counter to physical speed.
     
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  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Okay, now I want to get around you sometime when you're teaching that exercise, Brian. I like the concept, rather a lot, and could use another tool for working on it.
     
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  16. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Rock beats scissors
    Scissors beats paper
    Paper beats rock
    - a lot of people
     
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  17. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    For striking you have to preempt them. Which is a bit crap because it doesn't work as effectively as being faster.
     
  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Lizard beats Spock.
     
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  19. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Spock vaporizes rock.
     
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  20. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Even if you have all of that. It still maybe possible to overcome speed. It will be extremely difficult but not impossible.
     

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