Counter to speed

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu' started by stonewall1350, May 9, 2017.

  1. stonewall1350

    stonewall1350 Blue Belt

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    Has anyone figured out their game on people who are faster or more fluid? I am just wondering. I have realized that I am a very patient person and this has helped me a lot. I'm also physically pretty tough. So pressure games and certain cranks don't work on me. I have started really looking for gaps on people as they move quickly. I don't know if anyone else has issues, but I really recommend upping your counter game if you aren't very fast.


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  2. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Hit them hard....a good roundhouse to the stomach will slow anyone down
     
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  3. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Old saying said, "Everything have counters. Only speed and hardness have no counters".

    If your opponent's hand can touch on your face 3 times before you can even raise your arm to block it, there will be no technique and no theory that can help you.

    If you are

    - as rich as Bill Gate, you don't need to borrow money.
    - faster than your opponent, you don't need to worry about his speed.

    So to develop your own speed is more important than to deal with your opponent's speed.
     
  4. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Also just noticed this is in the grappling section...does that mean you're just asking for grappling response?
     
  5. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I roll with an old guy who moves like a glacier. But he is also Mr pressure. It slows everybody down and works to his game.

    Also you want to have a plan. So while you are applying pressure. He will look for escapes. And that is your opening to advance.

    Mr pressure top left there.

    18301514_1515849235092293_4801752621351885433_n.jpg
     
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  6. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Pressure...at my age with two knee replacements and lack of full range of motion pressure is my game. Pressure slows speed.
     
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  7. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Here are my personal options.
    1. Get hit with a fast punch in exchange for me having the opportunity to blast a more powerful punch
    2. Get sneaky
     
  8. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master Black Belt

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    The counters to speed (within the striking domain) are 1. Tai SubakI (such as head and body movement), 2. Learning to read intent.

    Both are valid.

    You may not be able to intercept with a block, but you may be able to move out of the path. Look into the tactic “issun hazureru” for example.

    My KishimotoDi Experience (Part 1–Intro and Principles)

    See also

    naihanchi – Karate Obsession

    But learning to read your opponent's move is a highly sought ability. It does exist, it can be developed, and no I won't give you pointers. You will have to do your own research.
    But I will give you this one hint. The brain is an expert at visual pattern recognition.

    Perhaps there is a method for training the brain to recognize something.

    Suffice it to say, when you develop 2, number 1 becomes super easy.
    Also, having number 2 opens the door to counterattack at the moment of attack.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  9. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master Black Belt

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    Sneaky... feed um traps.... and misdirection
     
  10. kuniggety

    kuniggety 2nd Black Belt

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    Since this is the BJJ section... grips. Of course this is harder with no-gi, but this is especially important in the gi. You can slow a fight way down with good grips and this works for the benefit for the older and more pressure passing reliant folks <- me. Also, it's important to realize that you can sit on your opponent. If you're passing from knee on belly and making your way around, sit on their damn head. If you're doing a knee through pass, don't rely on your hand to hold that bottom leg down...drop your knee and/or butt down on it. I can see the looks on the longer limbed/smaller/nimbler folks when I drop my weight on their leg and they realize they can't roll out of it.
     
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  11. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    In striking, the counter to natural speed is proficient timing.

    In grappling, the greatest grapplers I've had the opportunity to roll with, move like glaciers. Why? Because they're YOUR DADDY.
     
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  12. JP3

    JP3 Master Black Belt

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    Another option in the striking genre is to work on timing. You can move You the small bit it takes to defeat a strike which is moving fast, faster than you can move, much easier than you can develop that same speed. If that is even possible. But, everyone can develop timing, which comes with practice, watching and learning what the other guy is, or can be, trying to do to you.

    In the grappling game, especially int he ground stuff, for me it's being relaxed, and going where they're trying to take me... just a little bit more, or a little bit off, from where they wanted. Kuzushi, but on the ground. And remember, the pressure guy isn't "pressuring" everything you've got available to you to move.

    Well, unless he's THAT big, I suppose, but that would suck and you should have avoided that mess from the start.
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Funniest thing ever said to me was by a high level black belt, when I was a blue belt. He said something like, "you're as slow as a black belt, but without the technique." Lol... I'm just slow. But as others have said, good technique creates pressure and control. Good use of grips, and a good idea of where you're headed. Grips aren't for holding on for dear life and refusing to budge. It's to set up the next grip or to entice your opponent into moving where you want. Think of it like a funnel. You can't keep them from moving, but you can limit their options and bait them into moving where and how you want them to.
     
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  14. KangTsai

    KangTsai 2nd Black Belt

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    You train to be just as fast. Can't beat speed with technique.
     
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  15. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I don't agree with that. A substantial speed advantage can overcome some technical deficit, just as a size or strength or stamina advantage can. But technique can certainly overcome all of these.

    Said the other way, if technical ability is equal or close to equal, other factors can make the difference.
     
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  16. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I beat speed with technique all the time. I'm not the fastest attacker in the school, but I'm fast enough and when I'm not then I rely on techniques to make up what I lack in speed.
     
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  17. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Think of punching. 2 people who punch with equal speed. Now think of what person punching with elbows in and the other punching with elbows out. Which one will punch a standing target first if they both punch at the same time with the same speed.?
     
  18. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Technique can't beat speed?





    I beg to differ. And I love how Joko Ninomiya showed class when he helped his opponent off the mat.

    Edit: I'm not condemning Wing Chun. I'm condemning that Wing Chun guy's "skills."
     
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  19. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Speed has always been something I have been blessed with. So how do you counter speed?

    Distance, Angles, Timing are the big three when it comes to countering someone who is fast. Control the distance, utilize angles and that last magical thing of having the correct timing when you counter. All three are important!
     
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  20. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    To follow up on Brian's point ...

    Superior timing and positioning (angles) can overcome speed. However, those do require that you have superior skills than your opponent.

    Distance ... this is where proper implementation of your game plan can even the odds with an opponent who is faster and just as skilled. When you take away space, you take away movement. When you take away movement, you neutralize speed. Especially in grappling, if you can make the contest into a close range grinding pressure game it does wonders for shutting down fast opponents.
     
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