Core Teachings/Philosophy of Modern Ninjutsu

Discussion in 'American Ninjutsu' started by Limeydog, Nov 17, 2004.

  1. Limeydog

    Limeydog Guest

    Hi Everyone,

    The discussion (often heated) regarding Modern/American Ninjutsu still goes on. I was wondering whilst reading some of the posts about AN and it's core teachings. So I thought I would ask everyone here:

    What would you say is or should be the core teachings of an American Ninjutsu system. This is not a thread intended to "bash" anyone or any style of Ninjutsu/Ninjitsu, but as an understanding of where everyone is coming from.

    So if you were going to create a modern form of Ninjutsu, what would be your core teachings/techniques/philosophy?

    Please lets keep this thread with an open mind and not take things so personal. We are all walking the same path.
     
  2. heretic888

    heretic888 Senior Master

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    No offense, Patrick, but what you could potentially refer to as "American Ninjutsu" represents such a wide variety of schools and approaches that there really is no one unifying, core philosophy or teaching that could be applied to all of them.

    Really, the only thing they all universally share in common is a name.
     
  3. Flatlander

    Flatlander Grandmaster

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    Perhaps if practitioners were to post their interpretations of the core teachings of their various arts, commonalities would be revealed. I encourage everyone to contribute their thoughts. :asian:
     
  4. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    i would say rtms teaches all these things. of course others but these should be a standard. at least at some level.

    peace
     
  5. Limeydog

    Limeydog Guest

    Thanks for the honest replies,

    I think what I really wanted to ask was regarding the core principles of each Modern/American ninjutsu system. For example when I taught American Kenpo in the UK I would focus on these main principles:

    Economy of Motion
    Back up Mass
    Solidification of Base
    Zones of Defense
    Skeletal Freezing...

    There are tonnes more but these were the main ones I focus on. In Budo Taijutsu my sensei would focus on freezing the spine, leaving the opponent locked in a weird position I think it was from Musha Dori or Muso Dori...I think it was from Gyokko Ryu or Koto Ryu. I'm sure Dan Weidman could verify this...
     
  6. Limeydog

    Limeydog Guest

    technique including: taijutsu (unarmed combat), kenjutsu, shurikenjutsu, metsubishi, koppojustu, stealth, bojutsu, evasion, war tactics, combat strategy, and invisibility.


    So basically everyone teaches the 18 Skills:
    Junan Taiso, Ninpo Taijutsu, Taihenjutsu, Dakentaijutsu, Jutaijutsu, Bojutsu,
    Hanbojutsu, Ninja Ken-po, Kenjutsu, Iaijutsu, Tantojutsu, Shurikenjutsu, kusarijutsu, Kyoketsu shoge, kusarigama, Teppo, Ninki, Fukiya, Heiho, Gotonpo, In-yo do, Seishin teki kyoyo, Meso, Shinpi, Nin-po mikkyo, Kuji kiri, Kuji in.

    Does this mean that the Modern American Ninjutsu styles are carbon copies of the Japanese systems or have they evolved? If so how have they evolved? This is not meant as an attack I'm very interested to see how other teachers/founders have taken base knowledge and created something new. What insights did these teachers have? For all i know they may have had an elightening or Kensho moment...

    I look forward to reading your responses.
     
  7. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    i think the evolvement has come in by integration of new weapons and different applications to these skills. for instance... in classical combat they would stand far apart when engaged in combat... now in present days people are right up on you in a fight so the application tweeks to fit the situation. thats just one example.

    in rtms we focus on evasion, escape, and immoblizing (immobilization will help you accomplish the two prior) the enemy. kinda broad.... but thats all i can think of right now.

    peace
     
  8. DWeidman

    DWeidman Blue Belt

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    You are probably speaking of MushaDori (or what the Bujinkan calls MushaDori). However - the concept of spine locking is a common thread to almost everything we do -- it is just much more evident in MushaDori if done correctly.

    -Daniel
     
  9. DWeidman

    DWeidman Blue Belt

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    You mean closer than a lapel grab away? I would say there is more information than you can shake a stick at that start from a lapel grab in Traditional Japanese forums...

    If you are talking about strikes that start from within suigetsu... then you can't teach beginners... IMHO.

    -Daniel
     
  10. sojobow

    sojobow Purple Belt

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    Most neo's that I've come in contact with never mention any 18 or 36 skills. Through evolutions in learnings, the moniker "ninjitsu" is rarely mentioned. If you were training with these schools 20-25 years ago, you might be able to tell the "Ninja" influences in techniques and philosophies, but a newer student (5 or less years) would have no idea which part of their training is actually identified with any particular style, system or language. Comparison's are rarely made.
     
  11. Bujingodai

    Bujingodai Brown Belt

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    What schools have you been in contact with then, that would have no idea of the skills? Even as an indie, I see little difference in the actual "idea" of what auxillary skills were being taught than when I was in the Bujinkan. Most of the skills are fundamental to make it a Ninjutsu based system.

    BTW do you still see no use in Yoko Aruki? I am still wondering that one. In the last few weeks I have been looking at that question, there must in basic movement be 100's of uses for it. Just a question.

    What system do you study anyway?
     
  12. Limeydog

    Limeydog Guest

    Hi Dave,

    I have studied several systems gaining black belts in American Kenpo, Wado Ryu Karate, Muay Thai, Japanese Kempo and Full Contact Karate. I have trained in Budo Taijutsu under Shidoshi Bill Atkins for just over a year until moving to LA. I now study Toshindo through their home study course. All in all i have been in the martial arts now for just over 25 years.

    My main idea for this topic was to find out what exactly makes an American Ninjutsu system a Ninjutsu system if they have no ties to Japan, through core teachings etc. I thought that certain techniques may have been the same but called by another name, or taught differently. That's all.

    Hope that helps with your question.
     
  13. Limeydog

    Limeydog Guest

    Sorry Dave,

    I thought you were asking me, but you could have been talking to Sojobow.
    Just ignore my post, I am just a crazy Englishman
     
  14. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    hey dave... i always find your post information filled. good point!

    peace
     
  15. DWeidman

    DWeidman Blue Belt

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    So do I - actually. I am still waiting for ANYONE to throw out a single element of evolution that isn't already covered in the Bujinkan.

    Or - more accurately, I would love to hear someone explain a new "tactic" or "strategy" that isn't covered by the Traditional Japanese group (through a thousand years of battlefield experience).

    The only one who has even tried is Enson - but his example is rather limited - as there is a plethora of techniques that start from within grabbing distance.

    Anyone?

    I am looking forward to reading your responses as well...

    -Daniel
     
  16. Bujingodai

    Bujingodai Brown Belt

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    I don't disagree with that point at all Dan. I would state for a rule that most indie schools are ex pat Kan. Almost all of them I have met and trained with, thats quite a few, have an influence or direct relation to them.
    Thus why at least the co-relation to Japanese MA, and actual what many would consider "legit" Ninjutsu. Of which I am not going to debate, cause it will go nowhere.

    I can see, differences yes. But as the core element states, it is pretty much the same. Ie breaking of Kazushi, creating the proper distance, avoidance technique, using as little energy to create proper power etc etc etc. Just to name a few. I don't see much variance.

    I see some schools that have a more flashy gymnastic approach to it. Some schools that have a more broad look at the art, being a Sogobujutu. Some arts reduce the number of moves to get to the finality of it. However the basis I have seen is pretty similar....sorry to reiterate that statement so many times, it fit.

    For many, as in myself the art wasn't bad. Just the political stuff.
     
  17. DWeidman

    DWeidman Blue Belt

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    So you trade the inter-politics of the Buj organization for politics surrouding an indie organization. Politics are part of life - there is no way around them.

    I suppose this is really a side conversation between you and I Dave.

    I am still eagerly awaiting the Rick Tew / Robert Bussey group to chime in. Evolution from a distinguished art requires some kind of satori - and I am eagerly awaiting something intelligent to distinguish them from the Trad. Ninjutsu group (please please please try to find a new strategy or tactic that isn't covered in the Traditional group)...

    -Daniel
     
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  18. Limeydog

    Limeydog Guest

    Thanks Dan,

    That was the point i was trying to make, regarding insight/enlightnement towards their art from their perspective.
     
  19. Flatlander

    Flatlander Grandmaster

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    Political discussion split off to this thread.


    -Dan Bowman-
    -MT Moderator-
     

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