Consistent Knockout Neck Chop

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by josephus, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. Rayrob

    Rayrob Yellow Belt

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    I used this technique for real against a guy who was trying to assault me. I was taught by my Sifu to strike the side of the neck at a slight downwards angle. He said this would cause a momentary disruption to the blood pressure in the artery in the neck. I have no way of knowing if this is what occurred but he dropped like a stone. Accuracy is important but if you do it hard enough and miss then you are going to probably hit the side of the jaw, ear or temple, so win, win.


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  2. Prostar

    Prostar Orange Belt

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    I'm not a big fan of the no-touch knockout but I am a fan of the George Dillman I knew back in the seventies. I can assure you I would not have wanted to be on the receiving end of one of his strikes.
     
  3. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    When you get old and have arthritis in your hand that you can't hold a fist, Palm strike may be the only finish move that you can depend on.
     
  4. Prostar

    Prostar Orange Belt

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    I would never minimize the effectiveness of a palm strike. Especially since my hands are in just that condition.
     
  5. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Dillman has/had some very good bunkai of traditional karate blocks and kata. I say has/had because I don’t know if he still teaches the stuff I’m thinking of. A good example of what I’m referring to is in the back of his Advanced Pressure Point Fighting Ryu Kyu Kempo book; he breaks down the Naihanchi kata pretty well.

    I really liked some of his pressure point stuff back in the day. I’m referring to early-mid 90s when I was looking into it, but it could’ve been older by the time I came across it. I didn’t like his stuff where he said it’ll take a light tap to KO someone at certain pressure points. His pain points and control points worked pretty well when I applied them. The tap people and they drop, not so much. It was one of those grain of salt things when going over his stuff back then IMO. My then sensei went to a Dillman/Wally Jay/Remmy Presas seminar. He said Dillman’s portion was a mixed bag - some great stuff and some people dropping like they were hypnotized. He went for Dillman, but unexpectedly got far more practical stuff out of Jay and Presas.

    Fast forward to a few years ago when I restarted karate and I look up his stuff out of curiosity, and he’s throwing chi balls and putting up chi force fields. And Leon Jay (I think Wally Jay’s son) is in on that action too.

    I think Dillman’s early core principles were pretty good, he just took them WAY too far. I honestly don’t know if he’s truly a charlatan or he genuinely believes his own nonsense. If it’s honestly working consistently for him (KOing a lot of people he tries it on), then he probably believes it really works. Yet he ignores confirmation bias.

    Either way, I lost most respect for his work. There’s still a little bit of stuff that’s actually useful though, like a broken clock that’s right twice a day*.

    *As in the last time I used that phrase, of course a digital clock or 24 hour clock won’t be right twice a day :)
     
  6. Mountie

    Mountie Yellow Belt

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    Watching his responses to the National Geographic expose, I suspect he was well aware he was a charlatan.

     
  7. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    There is certainly truth in this. Dillman got a lot of his early pressure point training under Seiyu Oyata. I don't think there are many who would disagree that training under Master Oyata is good. Sadly, he took that training and jumped right off the end of the dock into Fantasy Land.
     
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  8. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    I simply don't understand you people! I do what Dillman does routinely. Pressure points, pressure points, pressure points!

    Usually just as the line of former students begins advancing while yelling charlatan, and waving their signs wildly while I frantically motion at them to fall down, is where I wake up.

    Why do you not believe me? :( :) :D
     
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  9. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    The extent of Dillman’s training with Oyata is a subject of debate. Reading the little bit out there that’s got some depth to it tells me Dillman attended a few seminars and a little bit more informal training. I don’t think neither Dillman nor Oyata have claimed extensive training. According to one of Dillman’s books and/or training videos from back in the day, he said Oyata gave him a pressure point diagram and Dillman didn’t pay much attention to it until later on. I think he had an “aha” moment and went back to it. I remember Dillman specifically saying somewhere that he had trouble getting the pressure points to work beyond a superficial way until he started applying Wally Jay’s Small Circle Jujitsu principles to them.

    With everything Dillman says, it needs at least a softball sized grain of salt. One think I’m pretty certain of is that Oyata changed the name of his system from Ryu Kyu Kempo to RyeTe Renmei to distance himself from Dillman and co.’s nonsense, among a few other things.
     
  10. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't know how MUCH training Dillman claims to have had from Master Oyata, just that he does claim it. And frankly I don't care about that bozo enough to spend the time to research it. It's entirely possible that I have as much training time with Master Oyata as Dillman, having attended a couple seminars. I certainly don't consider myself a student of his, however.
    I do know that you're correct about Master Oyata changing the name of his system to escape association with Dillman.
     
  11. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    I don’t care much about Dillman either. I’ve just got this stupid photographic-like memory for random worthless trivia.

    Speaking of Oyata...
    I trained under one of his students for 3 months a while back. I LOVED Oyata’s system. I never met Oyata, but Oyata frequently visited the sensei I trained under’s dojo. I remember I was there one night and the guys were saying it was too bad I wasn’t there the night before because Taika randomly dropped in and taught class. I’d have loved to keep training there, but a job change put the dojo about an hour away and my new work hours didn’t line up with the schedule.

    Aside from the kata and bunkai based curriculum, my favorite part was the “Bogu kumite.” We’d put on kendo armor and spar pretty much all out. It was a great balance of hitting really hard, yet being adequately protected. And just because we had kendo armor on doesn’t mean it didn’t hurt. Take a sidekick to the chest, and you’d easily get the wind knocked out of you. You wouldn’t break a rib though (under most circumstances).

    Sorry for the rambling. Sidetrack through memory lane :)
     
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