Combative system vs Martial arts

[Red Sun]

i did say that generalizations are usually not accurate. i understand that. but we all must admit things like scenario based training was never and is still not part of the official curriculum for many styles.


let me make a different point

so we are talking about a system to deal with violence.
with no belts, no gi, no ranking. no foreign language. its not boxing, not karate, judo, BJJ, TKD or kung fu. its not an asian martial art......what do you call it???

...a martial art.
Combatives is a term people use to disassociate themselves from martial arts, but you're still martial artists whether you like it or not. Much in the same way, i'm an athlete, regardless of my reasons for training.

 

[Dirty Dog]

so we are talking about a system to deal with violence.
with no belts, no gi, no ranking. no foreign language. its not boxing, not karate, judo, BJJ, TKD or kung fu. its not an asian martial art......what do you call it???

How about calling it a martial art?

 

[hoshin1600]

So we have two votes for "martial art".
So when I am asked what style of martial art I do am I supposed to say ..martial art martial art.
Re read my posts guys. I said I don't have a problem with it being called a martial art, that's what it is. But it's not karate, judo or TKD. Karate is a specific term everyone knows what karate is and if I called it karate it would be wrong. Same with any other style name...

 

[Dirty Dog]

So we have two votes for "martial art".
So when I am asked what style of martial art I do am I supposed to say ..martial art martial art.
Re read my posts guys. I said I don't have a problem with it being called a martial art, that's what it is. But it's not karate, judo or TKD. Karate is a specific term everyone knows what karate is and if I called it karate it would be wrong. Same with any other style name...

If you invented it, you can call it whatever you want. How about "hoshin karate?"
And karate is about the most generic MA term I can think of. I suspect most lay-people consider ANY martial art with even a hint of Asian influence to be karate.

 

[Tez3]

So we have two votes for "martial art".
So when I am asked what style of martial art I do am I supposed to say ..martial art martial art.
Re read my posts guys. I said I don't have a problem with it being called a martial art, that's what it is. But it's not karate, judo or TKD. Karate is a specific term everyone knows what karate is and if I called it karate it would be wrong. Same with any other style name...

Karate is a generic term, Judo and TKD aren't. I know a lot of places that do Shotokan karate, Wado Ryu karate etc, each style is different although it comes under the general term karate.

 

[Red Sun]

So we have two votes for "martial art".
So when I am asked what style of martial art I do am I supposed to say ..martial art martial art.
Re read my posts guys. I said I don't have a problem with it being called a martial art, that's what it is. But it's not karate, judo or TKD. Karate is a specific term everyone knows what karate is and if I called it karate it would be wrong. Same with any other style name...

Im sorry, what? How did we misunderstand you?
What does the name of your martial art have to do with anything in this thread so far?

so we are talking about a system to deal with violence.
with no belts, no gi, no ranking. no foreign language. its not boxing, not karate, judo, BJJ, TKD or kung fu. its not an asian martial art......what do you call it???

...do you want us to rename the combatives system you teach?
It may just be that you meant one thing and said something else. Please clarify.

 

[frank raud]

[QUOTE="hoshin1600, post: 1776311, member: 32360"

so we are talking about a system to deal with violence.
with no belts, no gi, no ranking. no foreign language. its not boxing, not karate, judo, BJJ, TKD or kung fu. its not an asian martial art......what do you call it???[/QUOTE] Hoshin Defense System? Policedo? Defendo? Nightbreed Tactical Combat? Steve's Academy of Self Defense?

 

[Tez3]

[QUOTE="hoshin1600, post: 1776311, member: 32360"

so we are talking about a system to deal with violence.
with no belts, no gi, no ranking. no foreign language. its not boxing, not karate, judo, BJJ, TKD or kung fu. its not an asian martial art......what do you call it???

Hoshin Defense System? Policedo? Defendo? Nightbreed Tactical Combat? Steve's Academy of Self Defense?[/QUOTE]

MMA? Not everyone competes who trains in it.

 

[drop bear]

i did say that generalizations are usually not accurate. i understand that. but we all must admit things like scenario based training was never and is still not part of the official curriculum for many styles.


let me make a different point

so we are talking about a system to deal with violence.
with no belts, no gi, no ranking. no foreign language. its not boxing, not karate, judo, BJJ, TKD or kung fu. its not an asian martial art......what do you call it???

That is probably a better delineation.

 

[hoshin1600]

we are talking about a system to deal with violence.
with no belts, no gi, no ranking. no foreign language. its not boxing, not karate, judo, BJJ, TKD or kung fu. its not an asian martial art......what do you call it???

Hate to quote myself but I got off on a tangent. This was a semi retorical question. My point was combatives is different from standard martial arts in the same way MMA is different. MMA is not a style of martial art but it is a martial art. It's something a little different. Viking sword or ax combat would be different as well. That was my only point.

 

[hoshin1600]

Most combatives systems teach in short courses because that is the way it is done in the military and law enforcement. They are required to do so many hours of training per year. The assumption is that the officer will be honing the skill in real time under real conditions. But it is well known that the short training time is inadequate. Matt Lawson come up with the MACP to help fix this. But that is an entirely different conversation

 

[Paul_D]

check out what Lee Morrison is teaching in this video. he is one of the guys i would recomend paying attention to.

Definately. He is, for me, the top guy around now that Geoff Thompson has, as you say, taken a different direction.

 

[Koshiki]

So it's more of punching? Nah, im more interested in using the entire body not just to kick and punch... more like pressure points as well and disarming an oponent using the different hand techniques. Thats why i got curious with combatives. Anyhow, ill just try to search more. But thanks to the idea!

I don't know if the OP's still around and reading, but to get back a bit to their original enquiry:

I'd be careful looking into systems heavy in pressure points and disarms. They're cool, exciting, and very impressive to watch, and certainly subjects which should be studied. But, while there's a great deal of mysticism and untested ideas in pretty much all martial arts, I think it's safe to say there may be more of it when it comes to pressure points and disarms.

Just to be clear, it's not that these these have no value, it's just that they should be that famous icing on an already delicious cake, and some people will try to serve you a bowl of frosting.

 

[drop bear]

I don't know if the OP's still around and reading, but to get back a bit to their original enquiry:

I'd be careful looking into systems heavy in pressure points and disarms. They're cool, exciting, and very impressive to watch, and certainly subjects which should be studied. But, while there's a great deal of mysticism and untested ideas in pretty much all martial arts, I think it's safe to say there may be more of it when it comes to pressure points and disarms.

Just to be clear, it's not that these these have no value, it's just that they should be that famous icing on an already delicious cake, and some people will try to serve you a bowl of frosting.

Yeah. If you are striking people you need to know how to strike. If you are grappling people you need to know how to grapple.

Pressure points dont change that dynamic.

 

[Koshiki]

Yeah. If you are striking people you need to know how to strike. If you are grappling people you need to know how to grapple.

Pressure points dont change that dynamic.

Yeah, also you never know when the guy might have his tongue on the roof of his mouth, or be alternately flexing his big toes...

 

[tony dear]

How is combative system differs from Martial arts? Or is it just another from of MA?

Martial arts and combats sports are what you do WITH people..combatives is what you do TO people or ON someone....

 

[tony dear]

Everyone wants to believe they are special. So instead of doing martial arts where you would be put on an even playing field with other martial arts.

You become combatives. So that your proof of effectiveness depends on your own standards.

totally disagree..check out KELLY mC cann sir.

 

[Blindside]

totally disagree..check out KELLY mC cann sir.

I have, and haven't seen anything out of him that I haven't seen in other martial arts. I think his stuff is all good stuff, but it is still martial arts. He has come up with some internal definitions that he uses to separate himself from "martial arts" but that is crap, because there are plenty of martial artists who don't train the way he describes "martial artists" as doing.

 

[tony dear]

At the end of the day..it depends if you do this for business or pleasure sir....I just want to survive a potential attack on myelf friends or family...and have done until now...anything that helps this is ok with me...respect, t

 

[Red Sun]

totally disagree..check out KELLY mC cann sir.

I've seen the Combatives For Street Survival DVDs, and read the accompanying book at one point. All pretty mundane combatives stuff, except for the defense. The defensive work is some of the best i've seen from the combatives world. He's one of the only guys who seems to address the issue of closing the gap on someone who isn't catapulting himself into you with every attack, or starting at close range (i.e. a brawl.)

Now, the bad part. In one of his DVDs, he demonstrates using a chin jab to counter-attack while you're bent over, covering your head, having your skull smashed to smithereens by a nonstop flurry of punches... It's not the worst response in the world, but it's not a strategy i'd like to stake my health and wellbeing on. Would you?

I take issue to it because his OWN SYSTEM has a better response to this situation.

Martial arts and combats sports are what you do WITH people..combatives is what you do TO people or ON someone....

This is a logical fallacy.
Martial Arts AND Combatives are something you learn WITH your training partners, then do TO someone in the real world. Sport applications are meaningless if your purpose for training is self defense or personal development.