Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2015
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- Reaction score
- 95
This is one of the styles (Kobukai Ju-Jitsu) I teach at my school: The Jiu-Jitsu and Strength Academy
Combat Jiu-Jitsu with Matt Bryers
- Thread starter Matt Bryers
- Start date
Nice Matt!
Good stuff! Nice to see you on the forum Matt!
Mike
Mike
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hey Matt,
Nice video. I do have a few questions about Kobukai Ju-Jitsu, though… I haven't been able to find much about the history of the system, other than that it was founded in 1993 by some guys who were ex-Army and "had black belts in jujitsu and other martial arts"… but nothing about which arts in particular. There's a heavy rhetoric of the system being "traditional jujitsu"… but I haven't seen anything that looks particularly traditional in anything I've found so far. The name also intrigues me… do you know the kanji for it? What is the translation of the name?
All in all, it looks like a good, very solid modern system… so I'm a little confused by the claims of "traditional" (I've also seen it referenced as "Japanese Jujutsu"… which doesn't seem accurate either… but that was by a junior student, so I'm not sure they were up to speed on the history).
Thanks.
kuniggety
2nd Black Belt
From what I can see, it was founded by a Mr. Russ St. Hilaire who got his training in ZenBudo Ryu created by a Raymond "Duke" Moore who "studied and received senior black belt ranks in Kyokushin Karate from Mas Oyama, Judo from George Yoshida, Danzan-Ryu Jujutsu from Ray Law and Bud Estes, Kempo Karate and Aikijutsu from Richard Kim, and Jujutsu from Kiyose Nakae." I didn't go searching beyond that.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
So… it's a modern, Western system, based in a modern, Western system, based in largely Judo (George Yoshida, Kiyose Nakae - who, for the record, was really teaching Judo… he's associated with teaching Kito Ryu Jujutsu, but it was most likely from all accounts simply the Kito Ryu methods contained within Judo itself), some fairly modern Western takes on Aiki systems (Danzan Ryu and Richard Kim's material), and some karate and karate-style systems.
Yeah, again, not quite what I'd class as traditional, Japanese, or similar… and, again, this isn't a bad thing or a criticism, just a comment on the description of the system itself.
Yeah, again, not quite what I'd class as traditional, Japanese, or similar… and, again, this isn't a bad thing or a criticism, just a comment on the description of the system itself.
OP
Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2015
- Messages
- 72
- Reaction score
- 95
- Thread Starter
- #7
Hey all,
No worries about the questions! You have done your history research well! So I don't need to go into that! But, I will explain the training concepts of Kobukai Ju-Jitsu or at least the approach I take. I cannot speak for how other instructors train their students, because we're all unique and have our own methods.
KJJ like other Japanese Ju-Jitsu styles have their core set of techniques that are broken into sections. Ours are broken into: Atemi Waza, Nage Waza, Jujutsu, Aikijutsu, Ne Waza and Weapons Defense.
We have white belt, yellow belt, blue belt, brown, and black. Typically it takes about 6-7 years to achieve your black belt.
Myself, some of my black belts, and top students also have deep experience in other fighting arts, including: wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Boxing, Kickboxing, Kyokushin, Defence Lab..... and more. We have a solid group of martial artists who have a deep experience in many different martial arts. I also have a 2x World BJJ Champion (Rafael 'Formiga' Barbosa) who is also an instructor at my school.
Due to all this knowledge, our Kobukai Classes and the techniques we teach have evolved. Our curriculum / charts becomes a tool or a guidebook. They're not "set in stone". They are ever evolving due to the experiences of our instructors and by the way we train (lots of sparring).
Our striking techniques aren't just basic kicks, blocks, and punches. We teach our students to be very proficient in defending against multiple strikes and attacks, and work to close the distance and attack with elbows, knees, headbutts, etc and use their Jujutsu or Aiki-jutsu techniques.
Our Ne Waza has evolved greatly by our experience in BJJ. I am a brown belt under Formiga (training with him for ~6 years), one of my other instructors is a very high level BJJ brown belt and former pro-MMA fighter (Oz Pariser), and another instructor is also a black belt in BJJ.
Lastly, we have an instructor who is also a judo black belt, and another who is an Olympic Level Wrestling Coach who just retired from Trinity College as their wrestling coach. You can only imagine how our takedowns and throws have evolved with these two around.
So............ the answer to your question is that we are a Traditional Martial Art Style that has deep roots in JJJ. But due to the level of martial artists at my school, our training has evolved.
We also spend A LOT of time rolling and sparring, at least 45 minutes every class. My firm philosophy is that if you want to know how to defend yourself and fight, then you have to fight. Since many of our students cross-train in jiu-jitsu or DL - DNA, the level of rolling is greatly increased. We have wars on the mat every night. But the students have a ton of respect for each other and love training hard.
I hope that answers your question(s) about Kobukai Ju-Jitsu and what I offer. If you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
Matt
No worries about the questions! You have done your history research well! So I don't need to go into that! But, I will explain the training concepts of Kobukai Ju-Jitsu or at least the approach I take. I cannot speak for how other instructors train their students, because we're all unique and have our own methods.
KJJ like other Japanese Ju-Jitsu styles have their core set of techniques that are broken into sections. Ours are broken into: Atemi Waza, Nage Waza, Jujutsu, Aikijutsu, Ne Waza and Weapons Defense.
We have white belt, yellow belt, blue belt, brown, and black. Typically it takes about 6-7 years to achieve your black belt.
Myself, some of my black belts, and top students also have deep experience in other fighting arts, including: wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Boxing, Kickboxing, Kyokushin, Defence Lab..... and more. We have a solid group of martial artists who have a deep experience in many different martial arts. I also have a 2x World BJJ Champion (Rafael 'Formiga' Barbosa) who is also an instructor at my school.
Due to all this knowledge, our Kobukai Classes and the techniques we teach have evolved. Our curriculum / charts becomes a tool or a guidebook. They're not "set in stone". They are ever evolving due to the experiences of our instructors and by the way we train (lots of sparring).
Our striking techniques aren't just basic kicks, blocks, and punches. We teach our students to be very proficient in defending against multiple strikes and attacks, and work to close the distance and attack with elbows, knees, headbutts, etc and use their Jujutsu or Aiki-jutsu techniques.
Our Ne Waza has evolved greatly by our experience in BJJ. I am a brown belt under Formiga (training with him for ~6 years), one of my other instructors is a very high level BJJ brown belt and former pro-MMA fighter (Oz Pariser), and another instructor is also a black belt in BJJ.
Lastly, we have an instructor who is also a judo black belt, and another who is an Olympic Level Wrestling Coach who just retired from Trinity College as their wrestling coach. You can only imagine how our takedowns and throws have evolved with these two around.
So............ the answer to your question is that we are a Traditional Martial Art Style that has deep roots in JJJ. But due to the level of martial artists at my school, our training has evolved.
We also spend A LOT of time rolling and sparring, at least 45 minutes every class. My firm philosophy is that if you want to know how to defend yourself and fight, then you have to fight. Since many of our students cross-train in jiu-jitsu or DL - DNA, the level of rolling is greatly increased. We have wars on the mat every night. But the students have a ton of respect for each other and love training hard.
I hope that answers your question(s) about Kobukai Ju-Jitsu and what I offer. If you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
Matt
Just to clarify where Chris is coming from with his question - when he says "traditional Japanese jujutsu", he is pretty much referring to koryu systems, which your art certainly isn't. From his perspective, Judo and Aikido would be modern Japanese systems. Danzan Ryu would be a modern American (Japanese-American?) system. Kobukai Jiu-Jitsu would be an even more modern American system.
This isn't to deny that your system has a family tree which connects back (in part) to older Japanese jujutsu systems (which is what I presume you mean by traditional). Rather it's that your art does not have the same sort of technical, pedagogical, or cultural foundation that is characteristic of pre-Meiji restoration Japanese arts (which is what I believe Chris means by traditional in this context.)
This isn't to deny that your system has a family tree which connects back (in part) to older Japanese jujutsu systems (which is what I presume you mean by traditional). Rather it's that your art does not have the same sort of technical, pedagogical, or cultural foundation that is characteristic of pre-Meiji restoration Japanese arts (which is what I believe Chris means by traditional in this context.)
OP
Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2015
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- 72
- Reaction score
- 95
- Thread Starter
- #9
Ahhhh I see. Then no, we are definitely not traditional.
I have respect for the history and where my art came from. But I care more about my ability to fight / defend myself and my family. And I care about my students ability to fight and defend themselves.
That being said, my instructor Shihan Russ St Hilaire is very interested in the history and has even written a book on American Ju-Jitsu:
Pioneers of American JuJitsu kobukaijujitsu.com
I have respect for the history and where my art came from. But I care more about my ability to fight / defend myself and my family. And I care about my students ability to fight and defend themselves.
That being said, my instructor Shihan Russ St Hilaire is very interested in the history and has even written a book on American Ju-Jitsu:
Pioneers of American JuJitsu kobukaijujitsu.com
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hmm… thanks for the response, Matt, but honestly, no, it doesn't answer anything I asked at all…
What I was asking was really what makes your art a "traditional Jujutsu system", or a "Japanese Jujutsu system", as it has no traits of either at all. It's a modern, eclectic, Western system, based in very few Japanese systems, and no traditional Japanese Jujutsu systems at all. I also asked about the name, which you haven't answered either.
Importantly, you state in your answer that your system is "a Traditional Martial Art Style that has deep roots in JJJ"… yet none of the make-up or history, either found by myself and others, or presented by yourself, show any roots in "JJJ", deep or otherwise, and none of your post shows any traditional aspects, base, mentality, methodology, or anything similar.
Once more, none of this is a bad thing… unless you're claiming it to be something it's not.
Well, Koryu would be the extreme of "traditional", yeah… as well as being the extreme of "Japanese"… but I wasn't requiring anything of that level.
Okay. Again, though, I wasn't requiring anything to the degree of being Koryu… but I do agree, you are definitely not traditional.
Yeah, that's all good and well, but really doesn't have any relevance to being traditional or Japanese… other than the idea that, as the concepts aren't that related, it shows that you probably wouldn't like an actual Japanese or traditional system.
Okay… again, not much to do with the actual questions I was asking… but I might check the book out. Thanks for the link.
OP
Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2015
- Messages
- 72
- Reaction score
- 95
- Thread Starter
- #11
To be blunt, this is what bothers me about some martial arts these days. People are so concerned about lineage or other ****, that they forget the true essence of martial arts - training to defend yourself, your family, your property, your home, etc.
I have no idea actually what you are looking for, that I haven't already provided.
But here's a some details:
One of the systems I teach, KJJ, has a background is in Japanese Ju-Jitsu..... that's it. The other styles / systems I teach are BJJ or they have background in FMA and JKD (Defence Lab). But I've never been concerned where Andy Norman (founder of DL) has his background. I found out just by talking with him about his old training days, but never cared; because once I trained with him I was thoroughly impressed and convinced at it's effectiveness.
I've also done Kyokushin, Boxing, Kickboxing and MMA. I don't know the history of those (besides Kyoksuhin)... but don't really care either.
Basically, I don't really care too much about the history. I have studied it, it's an important "reference" - but honestly - what makes it so important? History gives us a framework, concepts, something to work with, etc. But, it's up to me and others to test them and evolve.
We all end up developing our own "personal style". And my goal when teaching my students is to give them a framework and all the information that I can, but allow them to explore and develop their own "style". In the end, we're all doing Jiu-Jitsu or Martial Arts, but the way I fight and the way my students fight are adapted to fit our own body style, movement, and flow.
Martial arts, at is core, is about fighting. Once you put something else first: History, adherence to strict technique, forms, labels, titles, etc - then you lose the true meaning of martial arts.
Thanks for your reply, but again, these things aren't my focus. Based upon your responses, you know more about JJJ history than I do. Cool.... but not my thing.
I mean no disrespect. The original goal of this video was to allow others to see some of the training I offer and to discuss our training (if people are interested). Thank you again for your questions! But, I rather discuss training, than history
I have no idea actually what you are looking for, that I haven't already provided.
But here's a some details:
Kobukai means "Ancient Warrior Group (Clan)".
Kobukai Ju-Jitsu / Matt Bryers lineage:
Kobukai Ju-Jitsu / Matt Bryers lineage:
- ZenBudo: Tanaka > Okazaki > Ray Law > Duke Moore > Jerry Kunzman > Daniel Ustie > Russ St. Hilaire > Matt Bryers
- Danzan: Tanaka > Okazaki > Lono Ancho/Sig Kufferath > Doug Kiehl > Russ St. Hilaire. > Matt Bryers
- Aikijutsu: Takeda > Yamada > Lovret > Leavens > Russ St. Hilaire > Matt Bryers
- BJJ: Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie > Helio Gracie > Carlson Gracie > Ricardo Libório > André Almeida > Rafael Barbosa > Matt Bryers
One of the systems I teach, KJJ, has a background is in Japanese Ju-Jitsu..... that's it. The other styles / systems I teach are BJJ or they have background in FMA and JKD (Defence Lab). But I've never been concerned where Andy Norman (founder of DL) has his background. I found out just by talking with him about his old training days, but never cared; because once I trained with him I was thoroughly impressed and convinced at it's effectiveness.
I've also done Kyokushin, Boxing, Kickboxing and MMA. I don't know the history of those (besides Kyoksuhin)... but don't really care either.
Basically, I don't really care too much about the history. I have studied it, it's an important "reference" - but honestly - what makes it so important? History gives us a framework, concepts, something to work with, etc. But, it's up to me and others to test them and evolve.
We all end up developing our own "personal style". And my goal when teaching my students is to give them a framework and all the information that I can, but allow them to explore and develop their own "style". In the end, we're all doing Jiu-Jitsu or Martial Arts, but the way I fight and the way my students fight are adapted to fit our own body style, movement, and flow.
Martial arts, at is core, is about fighting. Once you put something else first: History, adherence to strict technique, forms, labels, titles, etc - then you lose the true meaning of martial arts.
Thanks for your reply, but again, these things aren't my focus. Based upon your responses, you know more about JJJ history than I do. Cool.... but not my thing.
I mean no disrespect. The original goal of this video was to allow others to see some of the training I offer and to discuss our training (if people are interested). Thank you again for your questions! But, I rather discuss training, than history
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hi Matt.
First, I'd like to point out that there's no need to get so defensive… I haven't attacked yourself, your system, or anything else. What I have done is to ask about your system… that's it. But, of course, if you want to continue in this direction…
Okay, then, you want to know what bothers me about martial arts these days? The complete lack of understanding of history, the lack of awareness of the scope of different methodologies and mentalities, the idea that "if it works, that's all that matters" is in any way universal, or even important in all arts, and people who have such a basic, small understanding of martial arts thinking that's what they're actually about.
What bothers me is when people make claims about their art that are patently false, either through ignorance of wilful deceit, when teachers are disingenuous about what they are giving, either because they don't have the education themselves, and just believed what they were told, or because they think it'll market themselves better, and when asked to explain, retort with "what does it matter, what I do works". Sure… but whether or not it works isn't the claim being questioned.
If we're going to be blunt, that is.
Oh, and no, that's not what the "true essence of martial arts" is about… by a long shot.
Well… I asked about the history of this supposed "traditional, Japanese Jujitsu (sic)" system you teach… not what your current class make-up is, not where your other methods come from, not what your personal beliefs on what is important was, nothing about the BJJ, the Judo, the "DL" thing… so what you provided meant absolutely nothing in regards to my actual questions. It was like I asked you where your recipe for a cake came from, and you answered that you drive a cadillac when you go to the shops.
That's not what it means, other than very loosely. The actual translation of that would be along the lines of "Old Martial Arts Society", with "ko" meaning "old", "bu" referring to military or martial matters, and "kai" meaning "a society, or meeting". "Clan" would be "kumi" (組) (becoming "gumi" when used as a suffix to mean "group/clan")… "warrior" would be "bushi" (武士), or potentially "samurai" (侍)… as Japanese tends to not use subjects in it's sentence structures, an argument can be made to have it imply "warrior" (martial person), but dominantly, it would imply martial aspects/studies (martial arts). "Ko (old)" is right, though… although, as your art isn't old (nor really based in any old arts, and minimalist directly Japanese ones), it can be seen as rather disingenuous.
The BJJ lineage isn't any part of what I was asking about, for the record… the first two are modern, Western arts who have a claimed lineage from Japanese arts… the third… well… fraud busting isn't really allowed here, but I wouldn't advertise any connection in any circles that have any knowledge of actual Japanese arts…
Actually, no, you don't.
Your websites imply a direct connection between what you do and historical Japanese arts ("Jiu-jitsu [sic] is regarded as one of the most effective self-defence arts. It was originally used on the battlefields of Japan by the Samurai. It has since evolved into many different styles of jiu-jitsu [sic] including evolving into other styles such as Judo and Aikido."). Then, in your post above, you directly state: "KJJ, like other Japanese Ju-jitsu (sic) styles…" and "So............ the answer to your question is that we are a Traditional Martial Art Style that has deep roots in JJJ.".
That's what I was questioning. Not whether or not what you did "worked".
Well… not according to the lineage you posted… it has a claimed lineage at least four steps (note: not four generations, three derivations) removed from anything close to a potential actual Japanese art… and even then, it's a bit iffy, honestly.
I feel we would differ greatly in our assessment of what Andy has done… he's a real natural talent, and has a good background through Inosanto, but Keysi and now this "Defence Labs" thing? Honestly, the idea of "trainer to the stars" as a marketing angle, especially when it's not really him training them, so much as him being brought in to help with fight scenes in movies (nothing at all to do with any credibility for a combative system, self defence, or anything else… and, much though I like Liam Neeson, I'm hardly about to take his endorsement as meaning a damn thing in this regard)… combine that with his reticence to discuss his background (which would be far more relevant than what Liam thought on the set of Batman Begins, or Tom Cruise thought when doing Jack Reacher), and I don't really have any interest in what he's peddling. Glad that it speaks to you, but… honestly? A bit too much used-car salesman for my taste.
Oh, and none of this is anything to do with what I was asking about. I didn't ask about Andy's latest system, or your BJJ pedigree (I saw the DL link in your signature… frankly, I thought it was odd that you were plugging someone else, but hey, if you want to…).
Again, nothing at all to do with what I was asking about…
What makes it so important? It gives the art it's context… it enables you to understand it… it teaches the "why"… it gives you the answers to the system… it allows you to understand the questions… without the history, there is nothing to test, and nothing to base it on.
Sure… really not anything to to with my questions, though. Really, Matt, you don't have to justify your training methods… I get it, I know where you're coming from, and I have no problem with what you do. The only issue is in the presentation and claims of a traditional, or traditionally based, Japanese art. Take the blog on the Kobukai main site ("Shihan's Blog")… the majority of posts are linked with Japanese historical, cultural, or traditional concepts (one on Shinto, another on samurai spirituality, another on etiquette in budo, and so on… if I was to be critical, they don't read as if the writer is particularly versed or knowledgable about any of the things he's writing about… it's not that they're particularly wrong in huge ways, just that they're more surface-level and presumptive, rather than any actual insight).
Yeah… not so much, actually. The wide variety of martial systems include many that aren't, at their core, "about fighting"… they are about personal development, education, refinement of the self, testing oneself through competitive activities, and much more. Even when we look specifically at the "fighting" aspect of different arts, that can cover such a wide variety that the idea of being about "fighting" loses all meaning. The idea that all martial arts are about the same thing, especially that they're all about such a base concept, is honestly a fairly limited understanding, from my perspective.
Yeah… I don't know where you get your ideas about what traditional arts are about… but it's not a hierarchy in that fashion at all.
Well… yeah, I'd say I do know a lot more about this subject than you do… as you say, it's not your focus. And I get that… as well as having no issue with that at all… we all have our own focus', as well as what brought us to the arts… but the thing is that you posted your system (a video of it, at least) up to generate questions and conversation… I asked some questions, and you answered something completely different, ending with asking me if I had any more… so, when I continued, getting huffy doesn't help you. You aren't into the history, okay. You are just following what you were told, fine. But don't be surprised when people who have genuine vested interest in traditional Japanese arts question exactly where what you do comes from, when it has a Japanese name, and is dressed up in traditional and Japanese trappings.
Yeah… here's the thing, Matt… you don't get to pick and choose what people ask, or what they choose to ask about. You posted a video saying this was one of the systems you teach… you're listed as one of three locations (and the head instructor at your location) to learn this system… so it's not outside of the realms of possibility that you might have some insight into the history and where the art comes from, I'm sure you'll agree, yeah?
Finally, drop bear.
I'm going to ask you to not speak for me, and to never apologise for me. You're really not in a position to, nor do you have the requisite knowledge of what I'm actually talking about to say whether or not I'm getting "fixated" on anything. If I say something I feel warrants an apology, I'll issue it myself.
First, I'd like to point out that there's no need to get so defensive… I haven't attacked yourself, your system, or anything else. What I have done is to ask about your system… that's it. But, of course, if you want to continue in this direction…
Okay, then, you want to know what bothers me about martial arts these days? The complete lack of understanding of history, the lack of awareness of the scope of different methodologies and mentalities, the idea that "if it works, that's all that matters" is in any way universal, or even important in all arts, and people who have such a basic, small understanding of martial arts thinking that's what they're actually about.
What bothers me is when people make claims about their art that are patently false, either through ignorance of wilful deceit, when teachers are disingenuous about what they are giving, either because they don't have the education themselves, and just believed what they were told, or because they think it'll market themselves better, and when asked to explain, retort with "what does it matter, what I do works". Sure… but whether or not it works isn't the claim being questioned.
If we're going to be blunt, that is.
Oh, and no, that's not what the "true essence of martial arts" is about… by a long shot.
Well… I asked about the history of this supposed "traditional, Japanese Jujitsu (sic)" system you teach… not what your current class make-up is, not where your other methods come from, not what your personal beliefs on what is important was, nothing about the BJJ, the Judo, the "DL" thing… so what you provided meant absolutely nothing in regards to my actual questions. It was like I asked you where your recipe for a cake came from, and you answered that you drive a cadillac when you go to the shops.
That's not what it means, other than very loosely. The actual translation of that would be along the lines of "Old Martial Arts Society", with "ko" meaning "old", "bu" referring to military or martial matters, and "kai" meaning "a society, or meeting". "Clan" would be "kumi" (組) (becoming "gumi" when used as a suffix to mean "group/clan")… "warrior" would be "bushi" (武士), or potentially "samurai" (侍)… as Japanese tends to not use subjects in it's sentence structures, an argument can be made to have it imply "warrior" (martial person), but dominantly, it would imply martial aspects/studies (martial arts). "Ko (old)" is right, though… although, as your art isn't old (nor really based in any old arts, and minimalist directly Japanese ones), it can be seen as rather disingenuous.
The BJJ lineage isn't any part of what I was asking about, for the record… the first two are modern, Western arts who have a claimed lineage from Japanese arts… the third… well… fraud busting isn't really allowed here, but I wouldn't advertise any connection in any circles that have any knowledge of actual Japanese arts…
Actually, no, you don't.
Your websites imply a direct connection between what you do and historical Japanese arts ("Jiu-jitsu [sic] is regarded as one of the most effective self-defence arts. It was originally used on the battlefields of Japan by the Samurai. It has since evolved into many different styles of jiu-jitsu [sic] including evolving into other styles such as Judo and Aikido."). Then, in your post above, you directly state: "KJJ, like other Japanese Ju-jitsu (sic) styles…" and "So............ the answer to your question is that we are a Traditional Martial Art Style that has deep roots in JJJ.".
That's what I was questioning. Not whether or not what you did "worked".
Well… not according to the lineage you posted… it has a claimed lineage at least four steps (note: not four generations, three derivations) removed from anything close to a potential actual Japanese art… and even then, it's a bit iffy, honestly.
I feel we would differ greatly in our assessment of what Andy has done… he's a real natural talent, and has a good background through Inosanto, but Keysi and now this "Defence Labs" thing? Honestly, the idea of "trainer to the stars" as a marketing angle, especially when it's not really him training them, so much as him being brought in to help with fight scenes in movies (nothing at all to do with any credibility for a combative system, self defence, or anything else… and, much though I like Liam Neeson, I'm hardly about to take his endorsement as meaning a damn thing in this regard)… combine that with his reticence to discuss his background (which would be far more relevant than what Liam thought on the set of Batman Begins, or Tom Cruise thought when doing Jack Reacher), and I don't really have any interest in what he's peddling. Glad that it speaks to you, but… honestly? A bit too much used-car salesman for my taste.
Oh, and none of this is anything to do with what I was asking about. I didn't ask about Andy's latest system, or your BJJ pedigree (I saw the DL link in your signature… frankly, I thought it was odd that you were plugging someone else, but hey, if you want to…).
Again, nothing at all to do with what I was asking about…
What makes it so important? It gives the art it's context… it enables you to understand it… it teaches the "why"… it gives you the answers to the system… it allows you to understand the questions… without the history, there is nothing to test, and nothing to base it on.
Sure… really not anything to to with my questions, though. Really, Matt, you don't have to justify your training methods… I get it, I know where you're coming from, and I have no problem with what you do. The only issue is in the presentation and claims of a traditional, or traditionally based, Japanese art. Take the blog on the Kobukai main site ("Shihan's Blog")… the majority of posts are linked with Japanese historical, cultural, or traditional concepts (one on Shinto, another on samurai spirituality, another on etiquette in budo, and so on… if I was to be critical, they don't read as if the writer is particularly versed or knowledgable about any of the things he's writing about… it's not that they're particularly wrong in huge ways, just that they're more surface-level and presumptive, rather than any actual insight).
Yeah… not so much, actually. The wide variety of martial systems include many that aren't, at their core, "about fighting"… they are about personal development, education, refinement of the self, testing oneself through competitive activities, and much more. Even when we look specifically at the "fighting" aspect of different arts, that can cover such a wide variety that the idea of being about "fighting" loses all meaning. The idea that all martial arts are about the same thing, especially that they're all about such a base concept, is honestly a fairly limited understanding, from my perspective.
Yeah… I don't know where you get your ideas about what traditional arts are about… but it's not a hierarchy in that fashion at all.
Well… yeah, I'd say I do know a lot more about this subject than you do… as you say, it's not your focus. And I get that… as well as having no issue with that at all… we all have our own focus', as well as what brought us to the arts… but the thing is that you posted your system (a video of it, at least) up to generate questions and conversation… I asked some questions, and you answered something completely different, ending with asking me if I had any more… so, when I continued, getting huffy doesn't help you. You aren't into the history, okay. You are just following what you were told, fine. But don't be surprised when people who have genuine vested interest in traditional Japanese arts question exactly where what you do comes from, when it has a Japanese name, and is dressed up in traditional and Japanese trappings.
I mean no disrespect. The original goal of this video was to allow others to see some of the training I offer and to discuss our training (if people are interested). Thank you again for your questions! But, I rather discuss training, than history
Yeah… here's the thing, Matt… you don't get to pick and choose what people ask, or what they choose to ask about. You posted a video saying this was one of the systems you teach… you're listed as one of three locations (and the head instructor at your location) to learn this system… so it's not outside of the realms of possibility that you might have some insight into the history and where the art comes from, I'm sure you'll agree, yeah?
Finally, drop bear.
I'm going to ask you to not speak for me, and to never apologise for me. You're really not in a position to, nor do you have the requisite knowledge of what I'm actually talking about to say whether or not I'm getting "fixated" on anything. If I say something I feel warrants an apology, I'll issue it myself.
OP
Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
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- #14
I've posted all I have to say about it. I actually wasn't upset about this at all. But now it's just not worth the effort.
Our views differ, and getting into a keyword discussion on why history is important, how I'm wrong or whatever just doesn't interest me.
Thanks for the response.
Our views differ, and getting into a keyword discussion on why history is important, how I'm wrong or whatever just doesn't interest me.
Thanks for the response.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
So, you're just going to ignore the questions, as you either don't know, or don't want to admit the realities?
Okay… if you insist.
Okay… if you insist.
OP
Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
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- #16
Wow you're a persistent one... Lol
Honestly I got nothing more for you... So, ummm...you win? You know more about... History? Or Tradition? Japanese Martial Arts?
To me this is interesting, but I just don't care that much. Sorry...
Since you have done your Google work, you'll know that I am more into the combatives side of martial arts. And providing excellent instruction to my students. I care about my and my students ability to fight, and defend themselves. I also like the sportive side too. Just fun.
If you want to talk about techniques, training philosophy, strength training, combatives, psychology of Self-Defense... I'm happy to talk.
But getting into this... Weird discussion where it seems you're committed to proving me wrong on... Something. Just isn't worth it.
We're just different and don't care about the same things.
Thanks.
Honestly I got nothing more for you... So, ummm...you win? You know more about... History? Or Tradition? Japanese Martial Arts?
To me this is interesting, but I just don't care that much. Sorry...
Since you have done your Google work, you'll know that I am more into the combatives side of martial arts. And providing excellent instruction to my students. I care about my and my students ability to fight, and defend themselves. I also like the sportive side too. Just fun.
If you want to talk about techniques, training philosophy, strength training, combatives, psychology of Self-Defense... I'm happy to talk.
But getting into this... Weird discussion where it seems you're committed to proving me wrong on... Something. Just isn't worth it.
We're just different and don't care about the same things.
Thanks.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
An excellent example of de-escalation, Matt. Nicely done.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Me personally, I've trained at Matt's school for a while (not currently) and he's a good guy. He's very passionate about his school, the arts he does, and the quality of his students. Given the fact that there is A LOT of BS out there, it's nice to actually see some quality stuff being taught! I'm sure Matt doesn't need me running to his defense as his replies were just fine, however, as a friend, I do feel obligated to say something. I'd hate to see him get run off the forum, by people harping on small things such as lineage. He posted that...not sure what more there is to say.
As for the arts core being about fighting....I agree with that. All of the other stuff, ie: personal development, etc, is all side bar stuff. It's like saying you train to lose weight. That's a load of crap. Join a gym. Losing weight is a side bar benefit of the actual purpose...to learn how to defend yourself.
Hang in there Matt. Despite stuff like this, this forum really is a good place.
Mike
As for the arts core being about fighting....I agree with that. All of the other stuff, ie: personal development, etc, is all side bar stuff. It's like saying you train to lose weight. That's a load of crap. Join a gym. Losing weight is a side bar benefit of the actual purpose...to learn how to defend yourself.
Hang in there Matt. Despite stuff like this, this forum really is a good place.
Mike
You know what, that has just blown me away, and the aggressive use of elbows. Yeah, I don't know what superlative to add here, but, that s### is just so cool. Thanks for posting, and keep em coming please
OP
Matt Bryers
Orange Belt
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- #20
Hey Mike!! Good to hear from you! And now chatting with you on Facebook lol.
Thanks transk53! That video is a little old, but it shows the essence of what I teach. I find that mixing the ballistic striking with combative takedown and throws really enhance the ability to "fight".
I have another video somewhere showing some of the sparring we do. It shoes another aspect. When I find it, I'll post it.
FYI - we're hosting a seminar on Feb 28th. I haven't announced it yet, but if you live near CT, please join us!
Thanks transk53! That video is a little old, but it shows the essence of what I teach. I find that mixing the ballistic striking with combative takedown and throws really enhance the ability to "fight".
I have another video somewhere showing some of the sparring we do. It shoes another aspect. When I find it, I'll post it.
FYI - we're hosting a seminar on Feb 28th. I haven't announced it yet, but if you live near CT, please join us!
