Combat hapkido system vs. traditional hapkido systems

Daniel Sullivan

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In order to split the subject of the system off from a thread about Grandmaster Pelligrini's rank and qualifications, here goes.

What is the substantive differences between Combat Hapkido and traditional hapkido in general?

How much 'hapkido' is there in Combat Hapkido?

Exactly what was changed and what was added from other arts?

I am interested in what people have to say about the system and its content, not specifically about GMP.

On a sidebar:

Is the distance learning changed substantially, or at all, from the system as taught in person?

I understand that the organization allows for video grading. Firstly, is this true? Secondly, how strict are the guidelines for such a test? Thirdly, is there any rank that must be tested for in person?

Please keep the discussion technical and factual.

Input from people with first hand knowledge (trained or are currently training in the system, owning the video lessons, in person seminar attendance, etc.) is very welcome and appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

Daniel
 
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Daniel Sullivan

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What? No takers? Come on. Let's have an intelligent and factual discussion about the system and what it is and is not. Surely, with so many strong opinions, there must be plenty of people who could weigh in on this.

Seven pages of back and forth about the founder. Not one word about the system. Weird.

Daniel
 

dancingalone

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Maybe there's no one active on MT with experience in BOTH Traditional Hapkido and Combat Hapkido. As you set the parameters of the thread, I can't offer anything since the little I know about CH stems from viewing the first 4 gup curriculum videos. I do aikido, not hapkido and there are ample differences between aikido and what I perceive CH to be, but that's hardly surprising.

I'd like to read such a discussion myself though.
 
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Daniel Sullivan

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Maybe there's no one active on MT with experience in BOTH Traditional Hapkido and Combat Hapkido. As you set the parameters of the thread, I can't offer anything since the little I know about CH stems from viewing the first 4 gup curriculum videos. I do aikido, not hapkido and there are ample differences between aikido and what I perceive CH to be, but that's hardly surprising.

I'd like to read such a discussion myself though.
I didn't say that participants need experience in both, though if anyone does, I would love to hear from them. I would like input from people with either experience in or some kind of knowledge of the system.

You do not have experience in it, but you have training materials, so you could, in theory, provide factual and first hand observation about what is contained therein.

As opinionated and strongly negative as some posters are about CHKD, I would hope that they have some knowledge of the system itself, though I am beginning to think that they probably don't know diddly about it and just enjoy sounding off negative comments about GMP.

Daniel
 

J Ellis

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I would be interested in reading this discussion as well. I'm hoping someone with hands on experience will step up and contribute some information.

Joel
 

dancingalone

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Well, I do not have my notes here at work, but let's kick off the discussion with at least 1 small vector and as I defended Combat Hapkido in that other long thread, let me take the time to criticize an aspect of the training videos.

The videos do not teach breakfalls or rolls. They just list them as a requirement for attaining a certain belt. I believe off the top of my head you need these for the yellow belt.

forward roll
backward roll
side breakfall

It seems beyond odd to me that any 'video learning' system could leave out some very fundamental techniques that are absolutely needed before one could learn throws or take downs.

In my wife's aikido dojo (I help with the class occasionally too as a yudansha), the first month or so is spent primarily on ukemi. We do not permit a beginner to play uke in a mainstream class until he/she has at least the basics to a certain level and we're fairly confident he/she won't be injured in a regular class.

The CH DVD just states that you should learn these in person from a CH instructor. Well and good, but that seems to indicate to me that in fact the video learning program is not meant to be the sole source of instruction, which in the end is probably a very good thing.
 

MJS

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I do not study CH, but I did attend, quite a few years ago, a seminar with GMP, here in CT. Its hard, IMHO, to know what the entire CH system consists of, just by attending 1 seminar for a few hours. However, what I saw that day, looked pretty effective to me.

The disagreements, for lack of better words, that we see between CH and regular Hapkido, are not just limited to this art, but to every art. You name it, and I'd bet anything that there'd be at least 1 person, who looked at the way another TKD person, Kenpo, Ninjutsu, etc., did something and say that they dont know what they're doing, that they're not doing the real (insert art), etc., etc.

I look at it like this....the world of the martial arts, is way too big, to be the martial arts police. While I don't advocate what certain people do, I look at it like this....I'm not training with that person, I dont plan on training with that person, I'm happy with what I'm doing, so I'm going to worry about myself. In other words, if more traditional Hapkido folks dont like GMP, then fine. Do they plan on training with him? If the answer is no, then IMO, those folks should just keep quiet and worry about their own training, their own GM and the art that they do, and worry less about what others are doing.

Is GMP really doing something that bad? Is he steering people who train under him, down the wrong path? Is it possible that people see what he's doing and are jealous?

As I said in the beginning of this post, I dont study CH or any other form of Hapkido. I'm simply putting my .02 into the pot, because I see this in fighting in the arts that I do.
 

zDom

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I've never had the opportunity to train in CHK, have no first-hand knowledge of that system to compare with Moo Sul Kwan hapkido.

I do know that a former student of the dojang I train at who had tested to the grant of green belt (white, yellow, orange, green, blue, purple, brown, red, black) but was in no way approaching the level of skill needed to test to blue,

quit our school and was very soon after promoted to black belt by CHK.

In January, one of his students reportedly won his 5th MMA fight.
 
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Daniel Sullivan

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Wow! A hundred and seventeen replies on a thread about GMP and his rank, only seven on a thread about CHKD as a system.

What this tells me is that most of the people who are so outspoken (and derogatory) regarding CHKD really have no idea what it is about or what is contained therein.

I find it humorous that all of those who come out of the woodwork to bash the system apparently have no first, or even second, hand knowledge of the system.

Really, I am interested in intelligent discussion on the topic. I don't know much about the system and the polarizing views have made me wonder why people are so polarized about CHKD as a system.

Daniel
 

Drac

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What? No takers? Come on. Let's have an intelligent and factual discussion about the system and what it is and is not. Surely, with so many strong opinions, there must be plenty of people who could weigh in on this.

Seven pages of back and forth about the founder. Not one word about the system. Weird.

Daniel

Yup..

Maybe there's no one active on MT with experience in BOTH Traditional Hapkido and Combat Hapkido. As you set the parameters of the thread, I can't offer anything since the little I know about CH stems from viewing the first 4 gup curriculum videos. I do aikido, not hapkido and there are ample differences between aikido and what I perceive CH to be, but that's hardly surprising.

I'd like to read such a discussion myself though.

Good post dancingalone..As I only have experience in Combat Hapkido I really cannot post much..If anyone has intelligent questions about the current ciriculumn I will be happy to address them..
 
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Daniel Sullivan

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Here are some of mine. I'll ask more as I think of them.

Are the principle of hwa (nonresistance), won (circular), and yu (flow like water) taught in CHKD?

What school/kwan of hapkido is CHKD descended from?

How is breath control taught in CHKD?

What is the prominence of striking in CHKD?

Thank you,

Daniel
 

goingd

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Here are some of mine. I'll ask more as I think of them.

Are the principle of hwa (nonresistance), won (circular), and yu (flow like water) taught in CHKD?

What school/kwan of hapkido is CHKD descended from?

How is breath control taught in CHKD?

What is the prominence of striking in CHKD?

Thank you,

Daniel

Those are some very good questions Daniel. I'm very curious to read the answers.

I have no experience in CH, but I do plan to eventually view a seminar (you know, when I'm done with college and have time to breath and sleep). I have heard many say that one should view it first hand before making a judgement about it, and I think that is a very sound idea.
What I know about CH, though, is some of what it does not emphasize. Because I love Hapkido, I would love to see some common, more universal practices taught across the board, especially including dan jun. One thing I do not particularly understand about the system is why and how it is specially adapted to a modern society. Other than teaching gun defense as opposed to, say, sword defense, I do not see what is more effective about it as compared martial arts of the 1800's and prior. Back then, a knife was still a knife, and a punch was still a punch, no?

One other question I'd like to add:
Does CH emphasize stretching to build flexibility?
 
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Daniel Sullivan

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Just a comment about gun defenses: they are taught in traditional hapkido, at least at our school. We don't learn gun defenses against M-16 riffles, as GMP was pictured doing in the Jan. 2009 article in Blackbeltmag, but we do have gun defenses. I'd gather every other hapkido school does as well.

Sword defenses may be archaic, but considering that any idiot can go to the hardware store and buy a machete, and considering that attacks of that nature are not unheard of, there is still validity to sword defenses.

Considering that sword defenses are, at least in our school, not taught until after yidan, I hardly consider them a mark of hapkido being stale or outdated.

Daniel
 

terryl965

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Well I will be your huckleby: This is my personal experience with both systems.

CH is a joint lock system the whole way, there is no real art involved. You learn how to manipulate each and every joint. I have never seen anybody in combat Hapkido spare with gear on

Hapkido is an entire system, where you have a number of set to learn and advance, like one steps, forms and sparring. Soory I have been called into work will finish later.
 

dortiz

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Sword defenses will teach you how to move against a blade, stick or empty hand.
There is a lot in there.
 

Hollywood1340

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Found a video of CHKD at a base level. Some may never take it farther then this.
As a CHKD student and instructor I have several problems with this. There is no "attitude" shown by either attacker or defender. I taught and teach to actually make contact with your distractions. You fight like you train. Nothing is more distracting then NOT making contact and having them look at you while you figure out what to do next.
 
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Hollywood1340

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Here are some of mine. I'll ask more as I think of them.

Are the principle of hwa (nonresistance), won (circular), and yu (flow like water) taught in CHKD?

What school/kwan of hapkido is CHKD descended from?

How is breath control taught in CHKD?

What is the prominence of striking in CHKD?

Thank you,

Daniel

Some of these relate to the "art" of Hapkido. CHKD is a self defense system. You can find these principles in this and an in many other arts, styles, and systems if you want to find them. For most it does not relate to the system of self defense CHKD was set up for. Again you'll find find the art varies from instructor to instructor, what their background is and why they chose to use CHKD.
Striking is very important. Used as a distraction or as an entry it facilitates the use of our techniques as it should regardless.
 

goingd

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As far as sword and gun defense are concerned, I was really only trying to point out the few possible ideas about CH that make it better suited for a "modern" world.

I see plenty of self-defense value in sword defense, as I see self-defense value in sword training. My old Hapkido school taught gun defense as well, and every traditional Hapkido school I've seen does too.
 

Drac

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Just a comment about gun defenses: they are taught in traditional hapkido, at least at our school. We don't learn gun defenses against M-16 riffles, as GMP was pictured doing in the Jan. 2009 article in Blackbeltmag, but we do have gun defenses. I'd gather every other hapkido school does as well.

The defensives against M-16's are taught in the Military Combatives program which is seperate from the regular program. In class we do defenses against handguns, knives and clubs..
 

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