Cold Steels views on reverse grip.

[TChase]

Hello Everyone,

I have no preference as to grip, but there are many myths about the Reverse grip that be re-examined:

1) Lack of reach - The distance will be determined by the tactic you employ in the combat situation. Lack of reach usually is because the options taught to the student have only included short range fighting tactics. (trapping, short range reverse slashes and stabs etc) As an example in Floro Fighting System the primary grip is in the reverse position, yet I can stand at 4 - 6 feet from you and easily strike you in less than 1/2 a sec. (usually less.)

2) Lack of Versatility - Again I truely believe that being "versatile" is in the training set forth to the practitioner. If you are never exposed to many methods or manner of using a tool or weapon than you are limiting the use of the weapon.

3) Lack of Flexibility -In a reverse grip position, my hand and wrist are still offer me a good range of motion and flexibility. A method to help improve your flexibilty here could be taken from Silat, where practitioners learn to write their name in script form with the tip of the blade.

4) Lack of accuracy - Again this is a training issue. I practice in either grip to work for accuracy. I hit 8 or 9 out of 10 times a less than 2 inch target all the time. It can be done on the move, or froma stationary position, but practice is the key!

5) Lack of defense -Lack of defense against what? A particular type of attack? While holding in reverse grip you have the ability to pick off an opponent's hand with the blade, jam it, hook it, filet it on the back stroke and a host of other "defensive methods".

When carrying a fixed blade you will notice that you are ina natural position to grab for the blade in a reverse grip position. It is fast and requires no change of the wrist position in order to draw from the same side as the drawing hand. Cross draw enables a person to easily draw in the forward grip again without the change of the wrist position.

I hope this helps keep the thread moving! Great posts by all!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

Excellent post. Two things I could add for the reverse grip are a more effective cut on the draw and more versatility with fulcruming cuts.

 

[[email protected]]

Hello Again!

TChase, good additions! A few months ago I was teaching a Sayoc Kali seminar in Stockholm, and was asked about "reverse grip" methodology in FFS. I did a short demonstration which you can view at www.bujinkandojo.net, click on the multimedia link and then FFS demonstration.

AC_Pilot : As for De Fanging the snake: The potential for an incoming strike to be negated by a countering/damaging strike to that arm has it's flaws as well.

1) The weapon containing arm may continue to follow it's inteded path and hit you. This could be due to the adrenal response in the antagonist not recognizing the body has been damaged.

2) A complete severing of the incoming arm, may result in the trajectory of the weapon coming though to you as well.

3) The gunting/Defanging the snake can also be done in the reverse position, again this is only limited by the methods that you practice and train in.

Another option is to "Jam" the reverse grip weapon into the oncoming arm or hand, edge out it cuts into the attacker, edge in he hits a hard wall of steel and may rebound slightly opening the door for a counter attack.

Gumagalang

Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net

 

[TChase]

Another option is to "Jam" the reverse grip weapon into the oncoming arm or hand, edge out it cuts into the attacker, edge in he hits a hard wall of steel and may rebound slightly opening the door for a counter attack.

Gumagalang

Guro Steve L.

That's something we do quite often. Very effective when moving in on an attack.

 

[Drifter]

I once long ago thought the reverse grip was cool. Then I took up Kali/Arnis/sword training and sparred reverse and forward grip. I no longer think it's cool, or effective for 99% of real world fights. The best way to avoid being cut is de-fanging the snake which can only be effectively done forward style.

You can defang in reverse grip. Try to get a copy of JAK's Drawpoint Volume 2. It covers some forward grip applications too, in case you still don't like reverse grip.

 

[Liam_G]

Yup, but he (JAK) will chew you up and spit you out using a forward grip with his bowie work.

It is my opinion that Mr. Keating will chew up and spit out most people using anything from a #2 pencil on up ... reverse or forward grip ...

Respectfully,
Liam

 

[Cruentus]

It is my opinion that Mr. Keating will chew up and spit out most people using anything from a #2 pencil on up ... reverse or forward grip ...

Respectfully,
Liam

Very true! artyon:

 

[[email protected]]

Hello guys,

Yes, Mr. Keating has some great material!

Here is another look at reverse grip sparring methods:

1: Reverse grip vs reverse grip
2: Reverse grip vs forward grip
3: Reverse grip lead hand:Forward grip rear hand vs Same
4: Forward grip lead hand: Reverse grip rear hand vs Same
5: #3 vs #4
6: Reverse grip in both hands vs forward grip both hands

Have some fun and train hard it is the Way!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net

 

[Sifu Barry Cuda]

Hey Guys,in the filipino arts as taght by Dan Inosanto one of the primary reasons to train reverse grip knife is to understand how to go emptyhand vs a knife.If you understand how the reverse grip functions in its respective range you will understand how to use the same disarming,locking and trapping techs empty hand.Plus contrary to what a lot of people think you will end up in more situations empty hand vs a knife than in a knife-knife duel.As a former corrections officer I have gone empty hands vs a knife in life or death situations and technique wise it was reverse grip training that enabled me to walk away-not foward grip.Plus not to knock anybody but I think a person with some type of Kali training that actually carries a knife on the street is insane! The court system will have a field day with you. Barry Cuda combatartsusa.com

 

[Drifter]

Plus not to knock anybody but I think a person with some type of Kali training that actually carries a knife on the street is insane! The court system will have a field day with you.

The court system would do that with any martial art. Besides, knives are for utility also, and people who have training in their proper use should not be forced to leave perfectly legal tools at home.

 

[Sifu Barry Cuda]

Drifter,sure the court system CAN have a field day with any martial artist busting up an attacker but leaving someone bleeding out on the street or getting carried away witha follow up and causing death is another story.I personally was arrested for asault after leaving an attacker bleeding in the street.The charges were dropped by the DA but the cops on the scene took me in because I was standing there without a scratch and an ambulence was called for the other guy.Im an ex cop and have been teaching JKD and Kali to lawenforcement for 15 years and the horror stories of obvious self defense getting turned into assault are too numerous to mention.Carry your knife-Im leaving mine home, Barry combatartsusa.com>

 

[Cruentus]

I agree that a knife shouldn't be carried for the sole purpose of self-defense. In my "EDC Knife" seminars, one of the first things I say is that if you are intending to carry something for self-defense, OC spray is great for non-lethal force encounters, and a pistol is great with the proper licensing (CPL) for lethal encounters. Even though in Michigan it is technically legal to carry a knife for self-defense, if a knife is deployed, one is looking at a host of legal troubles that may or may not be worth it.

However, many people, like myself, carry knives as everyday utility tools. The pistol cannot be taken everywhere, and is often legally limited to be carried in places and situations where attacks often occur. The knife can be carried in most places where a pistol cannot be carried. So, if one carries a knife as a tool, I feel that it is important to know the strengths and limitations of that tool as a lethal force option. This is one reason it is useful to train the knife.

All of that said, I am morally against any limitation on the law abiding citizen's ability to defend himself. So I understand perfectly well if one wants to carry something that may not be legally prudent if used in self-defense. However, I realize that moral convictions won't prevent you from going to prison for defending yourself.

So it boils down to personal preference; I respect ones preference to carry whatever they want for self-defense. I only advise that people know the strengths and limitations of what they carry in a physical manner, as well as a legal one.

Paul

 

[Sifu Barry Cuda]

Paul, point well taken, but here in NYC if your carriyng a knife as a tool you better be wearing work clothes and prove you are going or coming from work because we have the worst weapons laws in the country.Any blade in NYC is considered a concealed weapon not a tool.You d be better off carrying a screw driver here.When I lived in Indiana you could get a carry permit with a drivers licence and everybody carried a knife on their belt.I was more or less refering to the stricter laws in NY when I made that comment.believe it or not carrying pepper spray is a missdemeanor here, Barry

 

[Cruentus]

Paul, point well taken, but here in NYC if your carriyng a knife as a tool you better be wearing work clothes and prove you are going or coming from work because we have the worst weapons laws in the country.Any blade in NYC is considered a concealed weapon not a tool.You d be better off carrying a screw driver here.When I lived in Indiana you could get a carry permit with a drivers licence and everybody carried a knife on their belt.I was more or less refering to the stricter laws in NY when I made that comment.believe it or not carrying pepper spray is a missdemeanor here, Barry

Yes...and as much as I love NY and NYC, I am very glad I don't live there for that reason...the laws are much more restrictive.

And the sad thing about it is that you best believe that a criminal in Jamaican Queens or some such place is carrying whatever the hell he wants, and could care less about adding another felony or misdemeanor to the list.

:supcool:

 

[Flatlander]

Regarding reverse vs. sabre, I am altogether more comfortable with a sabre grip for my own personal safety. Having a limited amount of time in the art, I feel more prone to cutting my left arm in a cross over mistake when using a reverse grip with my right hand, than with a sabre grip. I'm not sure why that is - I just feel more precise going sabre. Perhaps, in time, I'll be able to train my way out of that feeling; but for the time being I figure it's best, practically speaking, to operate where I'm comfortable.

 

[Cruentus]

Regarding reverse vs. sabre, I am altogether more comfortable with a sabre grip for my own personal safety. Having a limited amount of time in the art, I feel more prone to cutting my left arm in a cross over mistake when using a reverse grip with my right hand, than with a sabre grip. I'm not sure why that is - I just feel more precise going sabre. Perhaps, in time, I'll be able to train my way out of that feeling; but for the time being I figure it's best, practically speaking, to operate where I'm comfortable.

For many people, reverse grip is more instinctive then saber; but as an FMAer I could understand how with your stick and empty hand training, you may be putting your live hand into play in a manner that could be dangerous for reverse grip fighting. As you probably know, the key to working this out is training to deploy your live hand differently when using the reverse grip.

If you were in closer proximity, I'd be able to demonstrate what the hell I am trying to say. :ultracool However, I am certian GM Worden or Mr. Ostapiw will be more then qualified to show you... :asian:

That said and as I said before, Saber Grip is greatly effective, and my personal preference for most situations. The reverse grip, however, has its time and place...

Paul

 

[Flatlander]

Oh, for sure! I can definitely see the point being made about its practicality off the draw with a fixed blade.

And, BTW, if we were close enough for you to show me what you're talking about, we'd be having a beer right now! :cheers:

 

[Nanalo74]

Drifter,sure the court system CAN have a field day with any martial artist busting up an attacker but leaving someone bleeding out on the street or getting carried away witha follow up and causing death is another story.

Remember the recent case here in NYC where a nightclub bouncer was killed by a knife to the thigh which severed his femural artery. In the trial it came out that the man with the knife was a Kali man and the press had a field day. The DA brought in witness after witness to testify to the expertise that a Kali practitioner has with a knife.

 

[[email protected]]

Hello Everyone,

This thread just keeps growing!

I believe everyone here will agree that anyone who carries a weapon for self protection, what ever type of weapon, has the level of responsibility to not draw the weapon until they or their loved ones are in serious danger. Any immature act of brandishing a weapon as a threat, or the improper use of a weapon in a "non life threatening" situation, will always bring with it a lot of pain and woe from Law Enforcement, and the Legal system.

(Bars are the worst situation in which to carry a weapon as three things are mixing..Testosterone, Alcohol, and Estrogen!)

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net

 

[Drifter]

Remember the recent case here in NYC where a nightclub bouncer was killed by a knife to the thigh which severed his femural artery. In the trial it came out that the man with the knife was a Kali man and the press had a field day. The DA brought in witness after witness to testify to the expertise that a Kali practitioner has with a knife.

Yes, that is a factor, but also consider that that was an unprovoked assault (as far as I know). The Kali guy deserved to go to jail. He shouldn't have carried a knife with that temperment, but people who don't go out, get drunk, and feel a need to stab people should be okay with their folder on them.

 

[Cruentus]

people who don't go out, get drunk, and feel a need to stab people should be okay with their folder on them.

:rofl: good point lol.