Chest up vs sunken chest

[DanT]

Do you guys practice a chest up (erect spine, back straight) posture when fighting or practicing or do you use a sunken chest (hunched shoulders)?

 

[Danny T]

Back straight, shoulders down but not hunched, chest soft.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

do you use a sunken chest (hunched shoulders)?

Turtle style?

 

[KPM]

Avoid the dreaded "Wing Chun Slouch"!!!!

 

[marques]

A bit sunken, relaxed.

 

[wingerjim]

Do you guys practice a chest up (erect spine, back straight) posture when fighting or practicing or do you use a sunken chest (hunched shoulders)?

The former for sure. The spine as I have been taught is the vertical axis one should focus on, like the trunk of a tree, the straighter the stronger. Any bending in any direction can first cause bad form and bad positioning as well and moving the center of gravity making your legs compensate and weaken in the process.

 

[KPM]

Avoid the dreaded "Wing Chun Slouch"!!!!

I've written on this before, but it is worth repeating. The "Wing Chun Slouch" can be a problem in some schools. This is poor posture and bad for your health. We've all seen it....those guys that are all hunched over with a big curve in their mid-back. You even see this in "Masters" that should know better! Sam Kwok has this...partly because he is so tall. Moy Yat had this to some extent as well. I think this is often brought about by two things. First is the whole idea that you have to tilt your pelvis forward to lock your upper body and lower body together as one unit. So guys will thrust their pelvis forward, which leads to the upper body being tilted backwards. So to compensate and keep their balance they will curve the mid-back and "hunch" forward. The other thing that causes this is the idea that to defend the centerline you have to have your arms on the centerline. So guys will try and pull their elbows inward to get them as close to the centerline as they can. This really rounds off the shoulders and results in a "hunch." Just take a look at Chi Sau footage on youtube and you will see this.....guys all hunched forward in the "Wing Chun Slouch." And the strange this is, you can see guys all from the same school and same teacher....some will be hunched over in poor posture and some won't!

This kind of posture is very similar to the poor posture that results from sitting in front of a computer screen all day without a good ergonomic set up. It can lead to back pain, neck pain, headaches, shoulder problems, etc.

 

[hoshin1600]

I don't do wing Chun but a style similar. I guess I will be the odd answer and say I curve the spine. For me it's not a bad habit, it's on purpose. I am not sure how much curve you guys are talking about so I can't say if I am as drastic. Personally I am not concerned with the trappings of a style of what is "right" or wrong. I only care about what logically works under the duress of real combat. The only "health " issue I have is from rolling and tucking my hips under. I find for me it puts pressure on my sciatica nerve. So I have eased up on the tension there.

 

[drop bear]

You hunch forwards in boxing to protect your head

 

[KPM]

Wing Chun Slouch:

 

[KPM]

Wing Chun Slouch:

 

[KPM]

Bruce is guilty of it here:

But fixed it here:

 

[KPM]

Here is Ip Man doing it when he was in his final days. Maybe this is where people got the idea that it is actually a good thing?

 

[dudewingchun]

I use my laptop too much so I naturally put my head to far forward which is no good. Id say modern times has ruined all of our kung fu posture lol

 

[dudewingchun]

I've written on this before, but it is worth repeating. The "Wing Chun Slouch" can be a problem in some schools. This is poor posture and bad for your health. We've all seen it....those guys that are all hunched over with a big curve in their mid-back. You even see this in "Masters" that should know better! Sam Kwok has this...partly because he is so tall. Moy Yat had this to some extent as well. I think this is often brought about by two things. First is the whole idea that you have to tilt your pelvis forward to lock your upper body and lower body together as one unit. So guys will thrust their pelvis forward, which leads to the upper body being tilted backwards. So to compensate and keep their balance they will curve the mid-back and "hunch" forward. The other thing that causes this is the idea that to defend the centerline you have to have your arms on the centerline. So guys will try and pull their elbows inward to get them as close to the centerline as they can. This really rounds off the shoulders and results in a "hunch." Just take a look at Chi Sau footage on youtube and you will see this.....guys all hunched forward in the "Wing Chun Slouch." And the strange this is, you can see guys all from the same school and same teacher....some will be hunched over in poor posture and some won't!

This kind of posture is very similar to the poor posture that results from sitting in front of a computer screen all day without a good ergonomic set up. It can lead to back pain, neck pain, headaches, shoulder problems, etc.

Any resources for good mobility exercises? I have that problem.

 

[geezer]

Wing Chun Slouch:

Yip Chun has a pretty straight back here. Samuel Kwok is slouching a bit, but then being so much taller might have something to do with it. I took a seminar with him last year and Sifu Kwok seemed to have pretty straight posture then.

Sometimes I think people assume a more round-shouldered position when doing Chi-Sau in an effort to cover centerline. I personally don't believe that's helpful.

 

[Juany118]

I've written on this before, but it is worth repeating. The "Wing Chun Slouch" can be a problem in some schools. This is poor posture and bad for your health. We've all seen it....those guys that are all hunched over with a big curve in their mid-back. You even see this in "Masters" that should know better! Sam Kwok has this...partly because he is so tall. Moy Yat had this to some extent as well. I think this is often brought about by two things. First is the whole idea that you have to tilt your pelvis forward to lock your upper body and lower body together as one unit. So guys will thrust their pelvis forward, which leads to the upper body being tilted backwards. So to compensate and keep their balance they will curve the mid-back and "hunch" forward. The other thing that causes this is the idea that to defend the centerline you have to have your arms on the centerline. So guys will try and pull their elbows inward to get them as close to the centerline as they can. This really rounds off the shoulders and results in a "hunch." Just take a look at Chi Sau footage on youtube and you will see this.....guys all hunched forward in the "Wing Chun Slouch." And the strange this is, you can see guys all from the same school and same teacher....some will be hunched over in poor posture and some won't!

This kind of posture is very similar to the poor posture that results from sitting in front of a computer screen all day without a good ergonomic set up. It can lead to back pain, neck pain, headaches, shoulder problems, etc.

Regarding the alignment of the spine, i think some people exaggerate it. When I am helping one of the new students I sometimes describe it as "tucking in the tailbone" vs a "pelvic tilt" because some students, when they hear the later, thin k "pelvic thrust" like they are doing the "Time Warp"

 

[anerlich]

This is not a problem unique to Wing Chun. Jiu Jitsu with all the guard work can lead to kyphosis, the "forward head" posture. The shoulders tend to rotate inwards and the upper back rounds. Poor posture sitting at a desk can do it to you as well.

Do Jiu Jitsu (or, it would seem, Wing Chun) and a desk job and it seems almost guaranteed.

My instructor has always encouraged a straight back in solo practice and drilling. Sparring requires the spinal alignment to be more dynamic and flexible, though always supporting proper structure and base.

Other styles intentionally exaggerate the rounded back and hollow chest, ostensibly to allow protection of the centreline and vital organs. Bit of a tradeoff with effective posture for power delivery and long term health IMO. There is a difference between doing something intentionally and doing it unconsciously.

Boxing (and wrestling) does teach hunching the shoulders, but they also teach you to tuck the chin, which stops the worst form of kyphosis, head forward and chin jutting out. A posture which will get you knocked out, but one I see too often from Wing Chun students trying to "get over" their sparmate's hands.

No one said any of this stuff was necessarily ideal for your health.

Any resources for good mobility exercises? I have that problem.

Steve Maxwell makes exercises to "undo" kyphosis a cornerstone of many of his seminars and some of his videos. The Official Steve Maxwell Website. In a nutshell:

Yoga sphinx posture with head nods and turns. Also Camel posture and upward/downward dog, or "Hindu" pushups (if you do them with strict form). The sphinx posture is not difficult and you can lie on the floor and watch TV or fiddle with your smartphone or laptop from there for extended periods.

 

[anerlich]

Regarding the alignment of the spine, i think some people exaggerate it. When I am helping one of the new students I sometimes describe it as "tucking in the tailbone" vs a "pelvic tilt" because some students, when they hear the later, thin k "pelvic thrust" like they are doing the "Time Warp"

It seems whatever you tell many beginners about stance, they find a way to exaggerate it and make it immobile, tense and uncomfortable. Like if it doesn't hurt, they are not really training. I'm continually telling students to relax, it's meant to be a stance you can move out of, one comfortable enough to stay in all day.

Per Musashi - Make your everyday stance your fighting stance, and your fighting stance your everyday stance. (Or was it the other way round? )

 

[KPM]

Regarding the alignment of the spine, i think some people exaggerate it. When I am helping one of the new students I sometimes describe it as "tucking in the tailbone" vs a "pelvic tilt" because some students, when they hear the later, thin k "pelvic thrust" like they are doing the "Time Warp"

I tell students to stand straight and naturally and don't "stick the butt out." The whole idea of "locking in" the pelvis is wrong IMHO. It should "float" in order to generate good "whipping" power up the spine.