Chen Taijiquan and Juji Gatame and Shime

[zzj]

ZZJ can you explain more about the propaganda behind showing a possible escape using Taijiquan that the Chinese government has used its resources to showcase.

It's the mentality, not some conspiracy. Tests like these tend to be eyewash that do not really test the premise, only serving to dress a preset outcome.

 

[oaktree]

Are you suggesting the guy put the technique weak or let go easily?I am fully aware of Chinese tv and propaganda however, focus on the technique being displayed. Are you suggesting that it was staged what evidence do you have to support that? have you had the technique applied to you and tried a similar method?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Are you suggesting the guy put the technique weak or let go easily?I am fully aware of Chinese tv and propaganda however, focus on the technique being displayed. Are you suggesting that it was staged what evidence do you have to support that? have you had the technique applied to you and tried a similar method?

I don't know who you are asking, but I don't necessarily think the uke* applied the technique weakly or deliberately let go easily. I'm saying he applied both the choke and the armlock incorrectly. It's quite possible he doesn't have the training to know the details of how to apply them properly.

For the record, I do have quite a bit of experience with both applying and defending those two techniques.

*(Is there an equivalent term in CMA to "uke"? It's such a useful term for clarifying who is doing what in a demonstration.)

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

*(Is there an equivalent term in CMA to "uke"?

下手(Xia Shou) - receiving side.

 

[oaktree]

I can agree on the technique not being applied correctly in relation to bjj or judo, and that is a good constructive criticism,
So we can look at it from let's say the average guy attempting it with some knowledge in martial arts could it be reasonable. as much as it may be a flawed experiment or presentation it is interesting to see Taijiquan at least making an attempt at something that is not part of the curriculum.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Are you suggesting the guy put the technique weak or let go easily?

For the arm bar, if you let your opponent to be able to "twist his arm" and move his elbow joint side way from the downward position, you are not applying a correct technique. IMO, when you "train a certain technique", you should also "train how to counter that technique". You then "train how to prevent your opponent from countering that technique".

Again, if a technique is applied 100% correct, there will be no counters, and there will be nothing to discuss.

Here is another example of "bad technique". Where did he do wrong?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

it is interesting to see Taijiquan at least making an attempt at something that is not part of the curriculum.

He has the right attitude toward Taiji as a fighting art. There is no argument there. His counters are both valid. It's his opponent who doesn't know how to prevent his counters. I assume his opponent did that on purpose.

If we all say, "Excellent clip, great counters, thanks for sharing". This thread won't go much further.

 

[oaktree]

Agreed that if applied correctly then chance of counter is diminished or unlikely, as for the sliding out well I will say grabbing a Chen stylist being able to silk reel could explain that, I don't want to make that a coup out but at least plausible.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Here is a stand up "arm bar". When your opponent jacks your arm and make your feet to be off the ground, it will be too late to counter it.

 

[zzj]

Are you suggesting the guy put the technique weak or let go easily?I am fully aware of Chinese tv and propaganda however, focus on the technique being displayed. Are you suggesting that it was staged what evidence do you have to support that? have you had the technique applied to you and tried a similar method?

I am suggesting that the technique is not tested to a good enough extent to prove that it can be viable in any situation other than when a flawed choke or armbar is applied. I would love to see verification that the techniques are indeed effective in most cases when you get caught in such situations by at least semi proficient and aggressive opponents.

 

[oaktree]

Soooooo, in other words in the cage or in a way in which the guy could have his arm broken is the only valid way either he gets out or had arm broken

 

[Zeny]

I don't believe in the existence of an uncounterable technique. Uncounterable 'gung lik' (or force generated through years of training) yes, but not uncounterable technique.

If my body has better 'gung lik' or 'sung' than you, no grappling technique you practise will work effectively on me.

 

[mograph]

(Is there an equivalent term in CMA to "uke"? It's such a useful term for clarifying who is doing what in a demonstration.)

Possibly, "attacker" and "defender" might be appropriate. I prefer "black" and "white" when the artists are dressed as such, e.g. "black applies peng, white responds with lu." But I know of no analog to uke or nage in CMA.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't believe in the existence of an uncounterable technique.

Not uncountable but too late to counter. The simplest example is when both of your legs are off the ground.

 

[23rdwave]

Not uncountable but too late to counter. The simplest example is when both of your legs are off the ground.

There is a solution to every problem.