Chen and Yang styles are different?

[charyuop]

Yes we all know that, but I found this video. It is nothing special, but I thought that for once seeing both style together would be interesting...

 

[East Winds]

Charyuop,

Interesting, but the girl is not doing Yang style. She is performing 48 step combined. A competition form that contains elements from Chen. Yang, Wu and Sun styles. They finish by performing the two man fighting set.

Very best wishes

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yup, that's 48 form, but it is a nice clip

Yang Shou Zong (Yang Sau Chung) Taiji.

Tung Yingchieh

Chen Style Chen Style 18 basic form - Chen Zhenglei
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTKyG...related&search

Chen Taiji Master Ren Guang-Yi's Compact Cannon Fist

I once had the chance to see an old film my first CMA sifu had of 2 old Chinese guys doing push hands. One was 85 and was doing Chen style one was 90 and doing Wu style. It was incredibly fast, flowing, both high and low, powerful yet soft and absolutely amazing to see.

As one Chen Sifu told me “Yang is to high”
As one Yang Sifu told me “Chen is to low”

 

[charyuop]

oh sorry I am still an ignorant on the subject hee hee.

 

[Xue Sheng]

oh sorry I am still an ignorant on the subject hee hee.

No big deal, I can't... actually I won't... tell you how many years I called it Yang Style 48 form.

I still slip and call it that from time to time.

 

[charyuop]

Oh, so there isn't a 48 Yang? Meaning the one I will learn it is not Yang style?
So let's see....the 8 form is not Yang and not even the 48. Plus the 24 was created by a group of Masters and there was no member of the Yang family in it.
Does that mean that the only Yang style is the long form???

 

[Xue Sheng]

24 form is based on Yang style, 48 also has Yang style in it.

Traditional Yang style consists of;
This is a partial list – and it may not entirely be correct since my Sifu learned from Tung. East Winds could give you a more correct/complete list of what is Traditional Yang Style.

Long Form
Fast Form
Short straight Sword form
Long straight sword form
Short Broadsword form
Long broadsword form
Staff form
Spear form
Stationary push hands
Single hand
2 hands
Moving push hands
3 Steps
4 corners
Freestyle Push hands
Qi training.

There is also the Yang style curriculum of Gin Soon Chu. He was a student of Yang Chengfu's oldest son
http://www.gstaichi.org/english/curriculum.php

I started with 24 form and I know a traditional Yang teacher that is a student of Yang Chengfu that teaches it to his beginner students, but it looks traditional as does mine now. I also liked 48 very much and I regret that I stopped training it because to me it had a lot of obvious applications.

I owe a lot to my first CMA Sifu even though he was a graduate of a Wushu University in China and not a Traditional Yang stylist.

 

[East Winds]

As far as I know, the Yang family only recognise the bare hand form (103, 105, 108 depending on how you count), a 39 form founded by Yang Zhen Duo, 68 form sword, 13 form sabre and push hands. As far as I know they do not teach a spear form.

Incidentally, the first 17 moves of the Traditional Yang Long form are the same as the first 17 moves of the Chen (laojia) form. Performed in a different way of course!!!!

Very best wishes

 

[Taijiman]

Oh, so there isn't a 48 Yang? Meaning the one I will learn it is not Yang style?
So let's see....the 8 form is not Yang and not even the 48. Plus the 24 was created by a group of Masters and there was no member of the Yang family in it.
Does that mean that the only Yang style is the long form???

Sounds like your learning the standardized system:
24 (mostly Yang with some alterations and Sun influence in the stepping... rocking step)
42 combined... new competition form
48 combined... old competition form
66 combined... long combined form, not taught much
88 Yang... I think it's officially called Yang style, though it's a slight alteration (some say plagurism) of Yang Cheng Fu's long form (usually counted 85 in mainland China).

Of course there's a lot of traditional masters, especially those with mainland roots, that like to teach some of these modern forms to beginers before getting into the traditional style.

The 40 move Yang form is another form "officialy" called Yang, and is basically all Yang movements, but not really recognized as such by a lot of traditionalists. I think it might still have a few non-Yang movements in it. I don't know traditional Yang style, so I couldn't say. It's the official competition form in mainland China for Yang style though.

 

[East Winds]

Tajiman,

Yes, you are absolutely correct. Yang Zhen Duo (3rd son of Yang Cheng-fu) created a 49 posture form which he hoped would become the recognised competition Yang form. Like Cheng Manching he removed the repitions, but unlike CMC he maintained the Traditonal Yang way of performing the form. He was at pains to explain that it was not a "Simplified" form, but maintained all the aspects of Traditional Yang Family Taijiquan. It could be performed in about 11 minutes and was therefore suitable for competiton. I don't know how well this has been adopted in actual competition though.

Very best wishes

 

[Xue Sheng]

Tajiman,

Yes, you are absolutely correct. Yang Zhen Duo (3rd son of Yang Cheng-fu) created a 49 posture form which he hoped would become the recognised competition Yang form. Like Cheng Manching he removed the repitions, but unlike CMC he maintained the Traditonal Yang way of performing the form. He was at pains to explain that it was not a "Simplified" form, but maintained all the aspects of Traditional Yang Family Taijiquan. It could be performed in about 11 minutes and was therefore suitable for competiton. I don't know how well this has been adopted in actual competition though.

Very best wishes

You learn something new everyday, I did not know that, thanks.

 

[Laoshi77]

Yes they are slightly different, however, my Taiqiquan teacher recently told me something that entertains the idea of the post. It is quite simple, yet profound: "forget the form and focus on the function", whether it is Yang (my style) or Chen, the applications are much the same.

There are indeed different means towards the same end!

 

[marlon]

As far as I know, the Yang family only recognise the bare hand form (103, 105, 108 depending on how you count), a 39 form founded by Yang Zhen Duo, 68 form sword, 13 form sabre and push hands. As far as I know they do not teach a spear form.

Incidentally, the first 17 moves of the Traditional Yang Long form are the same as the first 17 moves of the Chen (laojia) form. Performed in a different way of course!!!!

Very best wishes

HJow does the 103 form become a 108 or 105 form?

Marlon

 

[Xue Sheng]

HJow does the 103 form become a 108 or 105 form?

Marlon

It depends on how the person teaching it counts. Some count the repeat forms some do not and then others omit some of the repeats.

My sifu and his sifu both just call it the long form.

 

[marlon]

Thank you. I had asked someone about the 108 form and they had not heard of it. I think the Yang family now count it as 103.

Respectfully,
Marlon
btw thanks for all the info. it is good to learn

 

[Xue Sheng]

Thank you. I had asked someone about the 108 form and they had not heard of it. I think the Yang family now count it as 103.

Respectfully,
Marlon
btw thanks for all the info. it is good to learn

I believe you are right.

My teacher calls it the long form as did his teacher. But once when someone asked him for the exact number he counted 108. As he says the number is really not important, practicing the form is. He also says he never heard any form he learned described by number until after coming to the USA.

 

[grappling_mandala]

108 has very distinct qualities geometrically.

 

[themadbuddha]

It's always interesting to hear how many different types of Yang Taichi there is. I remember trying something I read about with my old Sifu and he laughed and told me that it was a "Western" thing, not done in China or in competitions. Once, my sister announced to everyone that she was going to learn Taichi at her gym so I went along and found that her teacher had around 2 years of learning and her focus was purely meditational with absolutely no martial function and strange footwork.

Different ways of making the same dish I guess.

 

[East Winds]

themadbuddha,

Sounds like your sister found the Taoist Tai Chi Society!!!! Your description fits them perfectly!!! :erg:

Avoid at all costs.

Very best wishes

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hey I once had a guy say to me (in an incredibly argumentative tone) that he just could not understand why I wanted to do any Tai Chi but Yang style because all others do not move their arms. (He had just started training with the Yang Family.)

What provoked this was my statement that I was considering returning to Chen style

After some discussion I found that he had only studied one other place and it was likely the Taoist Tai Chi society and he calmed down.