Cat thrown in bin by complete stranger

[Tez3]

All the hostility has been directed against this woman but strangely the anti CCTV people have been very quiet about the fact this was caught by a private CCTV set up. Quite rightly the woman has been named and shamed, she was caught doing something wrong, possibly criminal yet there's not a word now about how invasive, how awful and how 'big brother' CCTV is. Interesting.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

All the hostility has been directed against this woman but strangely the anti CCTV people have been very quiet about the fact this was caught by a private CCTV set up. Quite rightly the woman has been named and shamed, she was caught doing something wrong, possibly criminal yet there's not a word now about how invasive, how awful and how 'big brother' CCTV is. Interesting.

At least from my point of view, private recording is just fine. It's a public space, and it's not the government doing the recording. Correct me if I'm wrong, I read that it was the homeowners who set up the cameras following a number of incidents.

I have a lot more problems with the government recording the actions of the public, but even then I must concede that if it's in a public space, there is no inherent 'right to privacy'. Of course, laws in the UK are different, I'm only speaking of the US here.

 

[Mark Jordan]

Im hardly supprised about the reaction of communities around the world. It happens every time these stories occur.

That's because animals can't speak for themselves so people are taking it to themselves to advance their(animal's) cause.

Anyway, what exactly is the punishment for animal cruelty? Just curious.

I know in California there are certain types of animal cruelty that is considered a felony offense. It also has a provision for mandatory counseling and jail time. How about in other countries?

 

[Tez3]

That's because animals can't speak for themselves so people are taking it to themselves to advance their(animal's) cause.

Anyway, what exactly is the punishment for animal cruelty? Just curious.

I know in California there are certain types of animal cruelty that is considered a felony offense. It also has a provision for mandatory counseling and jail time. How about in other countries?

As I'd already stated, here custodial sentences, fines and bans on keeping animals.



The government doesn't use CCTV to record the goings on in the street, it's private companies employed by local councils who are voted in by the electorate quite often on this very point. The police don't run the CCTV either though they will request help from it's operators.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

The government doesn't use CCTV to record the goings on in the street, it's private companies employed by local councils who are voted in by the electorate quite often on this very point.

Is that not just as bad?

 

[Tez3]

Is that not just as bad?

It depends on whether you want your council putting up CCTV, despite everything that's said a lot of people are clamouring at their councils to put it up. Where they don't as you can see people put it up themselves. There's two arguments here, one is whether it infringes your privacy and perhaps human rights and the other is that should councils do as they are told by their electorate or not, if the majority of people want CCTV even if it may seem wrong should they still put it up? it's fine a lot of people arguing against it but if the tax payers want it, what should the councils do?

 

[crushing]

I found this quite funny.

http://twitter.com/CatBinLady

She only follows Kanye West, who only follows Justin Bieber!:roflmao:

 

[Sukerkin]

if the tax payers want it, what should the councils do?

It is important to beware of media 'facts', where a statement is made by the press/stats-gathering-body with insufficient evidence to support it. Noone I know is in favour of CCTV scrutiny of our public actions (other than the odd police-person because it makes their job easier 'after the fact', so to speak). Likewise, noone really thinks that these camera's do a great deal to ensure safety or public order for we, the common herd.

Of course this is a limited pool of experience. When I say "Noone I know" I am talking about a couple of hundred people with whom I have discoursed the matter. When I say " the odd police-person" I refer to a single Special Constable, so hardly a representative sample.

From my own experience and conversations, what the 'tax payer' wants is policing that works like we think it used to. Whether trully effective or not, what makes 'us' feel safer is a Bobby on the beat where we (and the criminals) can see him. A CCTV camera does not project reassurance and deterrence in the same fashion.

 

[Tez3]

It is important to beware of media 'facts', where a statement is made by the press/stats-gathering-body with insufficient evidence to support it. Noone I know is in favour of CCTV scrutiny of our public actions (other than the odd police-person because it makes their job easier 'after the fact', so to speak). Likewise, noone really thinks that these camera's do a great deal to ensure safety or public order for we, the common herd.

Of course this is a limited pool of experience. When I say "Noone I know" I am talking about a couple of hundred people with whom I have discoursed the matter. When I say " the odd police-person" I refer to a single Special Constable, so hardly a representative sample.

From my own experience and conversations, what the 'tax payer' wants is policing that works like we think it used to. Whether trully effective or not, what makes 'us' feel safer is a Bobby on the beat where we (and the criminals) can see him. A CCTV camera does not project reassurance and deterrence in the same fashion.

There clearly is a demand for CCTV because where there isn't any, people like the cat's owners, are putting up their own. There was a recent group of pensioners too who were doing the same.
We have CCTV on the Garrison paid for jointly by the MOD and Richmondshire council, Richmond residents want it too but there isn't according to the council enough money to pay for it but then we also have police 'walking the beat'.
In the North East CCTV is welcomed especially in the cities like Newcastle where at night there simply aren't enough police to patrol, even if they had endless amounts of money, with the sheer amount of drinkers out on a night CCTV is invaluable for spotting trouble in town centres. CCTV is usually confined to public areas such as town centres, it's not usually used in residental areas. if theres a lack of police officers look to the last government who insisted on so much paperwork that arresting someone takes hours at at the computer filling in forms. The infamous 'stop and search' takes an hour and a half for each person stopped simply becuase of the forms that have to be filled in, longer if the person is drunk or unco-operative. The lack of police on the beat has nothing to do with CCTV which although the police do find it useful is a local council practice not a police one.

 

[Sukerkin]

We clearly live in different areas and talk to different people, Tez.

I find CCTV to be one of the more visible examples of the infringement of civil liberty and, if given the choice, would vote for it's removal as a tool of social control (and that is even if it was as effective as it's proponents claim).

It has it's place for security use, as you cite above but even there there are limits to what I would accept e.g. if a neighbour put up such a system overlooking my property I would do all that the law permitted to get it removed.

 

[Tez3]

We clearly live in different areas and talk to different people, Tez.

I find CCTV to be one of the more visible examples of the infringement of civil liberty and, if given the choice, would vote for it's removal as a tool of social control (and that is even if it was as effective as it's proponents claim).

It has it's place for security use, as you cite above but even there there are limits to what I would accept e.g. if a neighbour put up such a system overlooking my property I would do all that the law permitted to get it removed.

I think CCTV can be a lot of things to people but the control of it is firmly in the councils hands and I get rather tired of people blaming the police for it.

Here, where we are it's invaluable, there are huge signs on the roads into the Garrison stating it is a security area and CCTV is in use. Cameras cover the roads into the Garrison as well as the shopping centre and amentiies we have, it doesn't cover any residence, that was carefully checked before they were installed. It may surprise people to learn quite how many vehicles and people we have that are a security risk, we have terrorists to consider from two quarters and neither faction is idle.

As I said in cities such as Newcastle, Cardiff, Manchester etc the use of CCTV especially at night is invaluable, so much is happening with drinkers and people out for a night out it's a nightmare to police. Have a look at You Tube and see how policing would be made much harder without the CCTV operators. I'm not sure if people haven't seen our inner cities and towns at night they can appreciate just how bad the situation is. Of course CCTV is not a solution to the problems, it needs a fundamental change in Brit's attitude to drink, the changing of licensing laws and the end of cheap booze in supermarkets but thats a whole 'nother argument.

When a situation comes out positive as in the saving of this cat no one says much about CCTV, the cat would likely not have been found if it hadn't been for the cameras. The thing to weigh up is the value of the CCTV in certain places as when someone is rescued from a mob beating or a thief is tracked down etc against the 'privacy' of people in public places. We've found that people are against cameras quite vehemently until the cameras come to their rescue, then they see the point in having them. I would say restricting them to public places such as town centres, car parks (who doesn't want their car protected?) and places where people are in danger and where more police patrols aren't going to be of use as in Newcastle or Middlesborough on a Saturday night!

I can't see how it's 'controlling' people tbh, it doesn't even control the drunks, the thugs and the thieves who still break the law even though they know the cameras are there, it does however get the police quicker to the trouble spots and helps identify the criminals. It has little effect on anyone else, I don't know anyone who changes their behaviour because of the cameras. The Data Protection Act means the videos are of little use to anyone other than the police and even they have to jump through hoops to view them as it is.

We had two guys beat up another then run off, it was caught on CCTV and the operator informed the police, the victim got medical help quickly while the CCTV followed the thugs and led the police right to them, a quick arrest and off to the nick ( 20 miles away which meant the two officers were off patrol for over four hours processing them, thats what I mean about bureauracy taking over) I can quote a lot of personal examples of CCTV helping, I feel happier with them there for sure. It may be Big Brother to some but it's also like an extra partner watching your back to others.

I do understand people's fears about CCTV but would advocate limited use in areas proven to need it, whether individuals should use it is another thing, even the cat's owner may well have been breaking the law using it depsite the happy outcome for the cat.

 

[Sukerkin]

That was very well stated, Tez; my compliments. Not much that I disagree with there :tup:.

 

[Tez3]

That was very well stated, Tez; my compliments. Not much that I disagree with there :tup:.

Ta muchly! It would be nice not to have CCTV or nor to need it but sadly in todays world we are constantly trying to juggle human rights with victim's rights and keeping us safe, I don't know the answers (despite those who think I think I do and take everything personally roflmao)

One of my pet grievances with CCTV is that it takes very unflattering photos

However it can be very amusing, the staff in one of our local banks come into work on Monday morning with a smile because of CCTV, it's set up in the ATM foyer and well, some of the stuff recorded is definitely X rated lol! Other bits show drunks trying to put their card into the machine, can take up to an hour to get that little card into the slot. Sometimes just getting in the door and finding the machine is a battle. :rofl:

 

[Cirdan]

Throwing someone else`s cat in the trash is wrong and cruel. But the media frenzy this incident has caused is just crazy, especially since the cat survived. Reminds me of reactions to burning the Quran.

On a side note, I have had to deal with litters of young ownerless cats running all over my parent`s place more than once. I love cats, but in the country this can be a real problem and has to be dealt with.. often with a shotgun. Now I wonder how many death threats I will get after posting this.

 

[Tez3]

Throwing someone else`s cat in the trash is wrong and cruel. But the media frenzy this incident has caused is just crazy, especially since the cat survived. Reminds me of reactions to burning the Quran.

On a side note, I have had to deal with litters of young ownerless cats running all over my parent`s place more than once. I love cats, but in the country this can be a real problem and has to be dealt with.. often with a shotgun. Now I wonder how many death threats I will get after posting this.

If people would be responsible and neuter their pets there wouldn't be such a problem left to others to sort out. No one wants to destroy healthy animals but there is little alternative when people are so stupid as to let their animals breed indiscriminately.

 

[Cirdan]

If people would be responsible and neuter their pets there wouldn't be such a problem left to others to sort out. No one wants to destroy healthy animals but there is little alternative when people are so stupid as to let their animals breed indiscriminately.

Very true. It is a bit less of a problem now than it was fifteen years ago so I guess people are learning.. slowly.

Then you have the families who get a cat for the kids but have no one to care for it next summer when they go on vacation.. so they just throw it out. Not to mention the wackjobs who get exotic animals without knowing how to care for them.

 

[Blade96]

The things I want to do to people like this would get me some hard time and banned from here, so I will just bite my tongue.

I have similar thoughts

Feel sometimes that i want to buy a can of abuse especially for people such as this.

 

[Tez3]

She's been charged so it's going to court now. Not sure when the case is being heard.