Capoeira works

[Daniel Sullivan]

On one hand Atacs has been arguing that the cartwheel kick is a reliable method of self preservation, while on the other hand FC was arguing that this type of technique is not the entirety of Capoeira and that it has a distinctly practical side. Now he is arguing that what we have all seen as Capoeira is, in reality the full spectrum of Capoeira, but it can't be practised as a combat system because that would distrupt the flow and if it is practised as a combat system it bears little resemblance to what is taught as Capoeira. can you understand how this can be construed as utter nonsense?

That isn't exactly what he said. He was describing the sport/competition aspect of the art. This is similar to what is seen in taekwondo: a kicking game with high kicks to the head that looks nothing like the pumse or breaking techniques (the three things you'll see at a tournament). Striking your opponent in the throat with an arch hand would be an example of using practical TKD. So would a low side kick to the knee. But those would disrupt the flow of the tourney.

Also like TKD, SD is taught more seldomly than the WTF sporting style. Doesn't mean that there isn't a practical element in taekwondo, but sparring at most dojangs will involve a padded hogu, headgear, instep protectors, and maybe forearm/elbow guards.

But if you look around, you will find TKD schools that also have a strong SD element. They just are not very prevelant.

Daniel

 

[yorkshirelad]

That isn't exactly what he said. He was describing the sport/competition aspect of the art. This is similar to what is seen in taekwondo: a kicking game with high kicks to the head that looks nothing like the pumse or breaking techniques (the three things you'll see at a tournament). Striking your opponent in the throat with an arch hand would be an example of using practical TKD. So would a low side kick to the knee. But those would disrupt the flow of the tourney.

Also like TKD, SD is taught more seldomly than the WTF sporting style. Doesn't mean that there isn't a practical element in taekwondo, but sparring at most dojangs will involve a padded hogu, headgear, instep protectors, and maybe forearm/elbow guards.

But if you look around, you will find TKD schools that also have a strong SD element. They just are not very prevelant.

Daniel

Exactly, if I look around I will find TKD schools that also have a strong SD element. I will and I have and these arts are easy to find on Youtube or other source. All i am sayin is....ok.....i'm going to say this one more time......Are you ready? SHOW ME? SHOW ME? If you are intent on convincing the world about the combat effectiveness of Capoeira, then show me?

 

[Twin Fist]

It was mentioned. But people are still stuck on handstands and cartwheels.

Daniel

that is because the OP is still insisting they work for self defense, which is retarded. Anyone that has ever been in a real fight knows this....

FC is claiming that there is a combat side to this art, Josh said the same, myself, arch, and York have asked, dozens of times to see some of the self defense parts of this art.

no one has shown us ANYTHING

I believe:

1)there is someone, somewhere that teaches this system and concentrates on combat. It prob looks like regular generic karate in that situation.

2)the OP's insistance that gymnastics are usefull for self defense is making me question his ability to pass a drug screening.

3)asking to see some of this arts combat moves is a fair request

4) hand stands and cartwheeel are NOT a good idea in self defense.

5) MMA isnt self defense, niether is tourny fighting.

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't think so Fella! You just did a full 180 and conceded that the combat version of Capoeira is the dance we've all been talking about here. Now, according to you we are not astute enough to pull the combat techniques out of it. apparently Mr. Parker was working on a book, just before he died titled "Everyday gestures that can save your life". My wife is a gymnast. Would I tell her that a handstand kick will be beneficial against an attempted rape? No! Why? Because it's not! And no amount of insulting posts from you will make it so! By the way, the embarassement comes from people making extraordinary claims about the effectiveness of dangerous handstands in combat

the record speaks for itself.

 

[Flying Crane]

That isn't exactly what he said. He was describing the sport/competition aspect of the art. This is similar to what is seen in taekwondo: a kicking game with high kicks to the head that looks nothing like the pumse or breaking techniques (the three things you'll see at a tournament). Striking your opponent in the throat with an arch hand would be an example of using practical TKD. So would a low side kick to the knee. But those would disrupt the flow of the tourney.

Also like TKD, SD is taught more seldomly than the WTF sporting style. Doesn't mean that there isn't a practical element in taekwondo, but sparring at most dojangs will involve a padded hogu, headgear, instep protectors, and maybe forearm/elbow guards.

But if you look around, you will find TKD schools that also have a strong SD element. They just are not very prevelant.

Daniel

Here is somebody who does not lack the capacity.

 

[Flying Crane]

Exactly, if I look around I will find TKD schools that also have a strong SD element. I will and I have and these arts are easy to find on Youtube or other source. All i am sayin is....ok.....i'm going to say this one more time......Are you ready? SHOW ME? SHOW ME? If you are intent on convincing the world about the combat effectiveness of Capoeira, then show me?

I'm still waiting for some video proof from your own self. Without some video, you've got no credibility. You are just a hack off the street.

 

[Twin Fist]

dude, come on

 

[yorkshirelad]

I'm still waiting for some video proof from your own self. Without some video, you've got no credibility. You are just a hack off the street.

I'm not trying to prove anything! You obviously are! If you weren't, right at the beginning of this thread you would've said something like, "I'm not really bothered, if you believe or not, I think it's effective and that's all that counts". You didn't do that though, you began by explaining your position and when that explanation didn't hold water, you resorted to insults. This would suggest that you are frustrated and angry because we didn't take your view at face value. Then to buy in to this fantasy that this cartwheel, triple lindy, handstand kick is a viable combatives options, makes you look even less credible.

 

[Flying Crane]

I'm not trying to prove anything! You obviously are! If you weren't, right at the beginning of this thread you would've said something like, "I'm not really bothered, if you believe or not, I think it's effective and that's all that counts". You didn't do that though, you began by explaining your position and when that explanation didn't hold water, you resorted to insults. This would suggest that you are frustrated and angry because we didn't take your view at face value. Then to buy in to this fantasy that this cartwheel, triple lindy, handstand kick is a viable combatives options, makes you look even less credible.

you made the rules. The rules seem to require video, before anything can be accepted.

video, please.

 

[Flying Crane]

We don't have to keep travelling down this road of your self-destruction. I've offered you a way out at least a couple of times.

But if you want to, we can keep doing this until the admininstration locks and closes the thread. It's up to you.

 

[yorkshirelad]

We don't have to keep travelling down this road of your self-destruction. I've offered you a way out at least a couple of times.

But if you want to, we can keep doing this until the admininstration locks and closes the thread. It's up to you.

Let's keep going! I want the world to see how bonkers you truly are! Now, show me the Combat Capoeira!

 

[yorkshirelad]

You don't have to. I'm not trying to convince you of what I am or what I was,. You can take what I say or leave it. But for the whole of this thread YOU HAVE been trying to convince me that Capoeira is a valid self preservation art and you have failed to present anything that I can see. If i was to ask an Aikido of Hapkido practitioner to show me something applicable to self preservation, they will not show me Ueshiba performing ninin-dori, they will most likely present me with the Kidotai course, Robert Koga or some of John Pellegrini's DVD material. Atacx showed me a handstand kick. Any video I see of Capoeira on Youtube I just get gymnastics. You obviously really want us to believe in the combat effectiveness of Capoeira, so please SHOW US, thatn is all I'm asking!

See the above post FC. I'm going to continue to play the same record! You have no visual representation of capoeira as a combative art. I can't find it anywhere I look. But then again, I can't find any representations of combat in Ballet. Strange that isn't it?

 

[Flying Crane]

why do you believe that everything must exist on video, or it doesn't exist at all?

In the spirit of true discussion, I'm still hoping for an answer to this question.

 

[MJS]

Admin Note

This thread has pretty much run its course.

Thread Closed!