Capoeira Kick

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by PhotonGuy, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    This video shows the power of the Capoeira kick when compared to kicks from other styles. Although I would really say it depends more on the person not on the style, Capoeira does have a unique and unusual method of generating power and it looks very effective.


     
  2. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    It can be. Like everything, it depends.
     
  3. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Unfortunate how they had to make up "science" in an attempt to prove how "lethal" it is though...
     
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  4. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    I've seen this before, and the kick was less powerful than the others. It was just "powerful" because it is "deceptive."

    Edit: Okay, it was slower than MT and way slower than TKD. It was stronger than MT, but weaker than TKD.

    The Karate guy threw a front kick, which is baffling to me for many reasons.

    The biggest issue I see is he's pressing a hand on the ground and swinging a foot. The TKD kick is done with one foot pushing and one foot swinging. Legs are stronger than hands, so you get the same effect of drawing power from the ground, but it's a lot easier to do with your legs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  5. Rat

    Rat Blue Belt

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    I don't like that video, its just a power demo and doesn't account for how you would use said kick in actually combat.

    Plus its not a scientific test due to everyone doing a different kick, the least they could do is do the most similar kick to the base kick (capoeira kick). At leas thats how i view it, your just saying this kick is more powerful than these two kicks, but what if the Capoeira person did a roundhouse or a front or side kick?

    Also this
    I recall reading/being told side kicks can generate more power than front kicks and i believe round kicks are the same.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  6. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    I don't think any other art does a kick that way. If they do it's a demo art like Wushu.

    But the karate guy shouldn't have done a front kick.
     
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  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    It is about efficiency. The kick works but it takes a lot of energy to throw. It is harder to set up but less people will have spent time learning to defend it.
     
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  8. Rat

    Rat Blue Belt

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    I could imagine it being used on the ground as one of those ground guard kicks or some form of interim ground to standing position.
     
  9. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Capoeira works 3 dimensionally. So as well as going backwards, forwards, left and right. They also go up and down.

    So to avoid strikes they will do what in wrestling or MMA is called changing levels.

    So they may use a defence that takes them to the ground and then pop back up with strikes.

    Best case scenario you are still hunting his head and while you are hitting air his kick adds with your forwards momentum and cuts you in half.
     
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  10. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    You make a good point. As strong as the Capoeira kick is I believe Bruce Lee's burst technique would be much stronger.
     
  11. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Just had a chance to view the video. It wasn’t the kick I was expecting.

    Whatever, tho. I stand my my initial comments.
     
  12. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    I have no problem agreeing the kick can be effective and has a place to be used. I have every problem believing the kick is anywhere near as powerful than a roundhouse kick while your leg is planted on the ground.
     
  13. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    What does it matter? It’s a meaningless point to make. The power of the technique (any technique) depends on who is doing it. Their level of skill with the technique, physical fitness, and physical strength make a difference. When comparing different techniques from different systems, each done by a different person, you cannot control for these personal differences.

    The only thing that would make the comparison meaningful would be if somehow you could take one person, teach him each of these techniques to the exact same level of proficiency (however that may be determined), and then somehow block the experience of training in one technique from influencing the training in the others. In this way you could control for strength, weight, natural athletic gifts, etc.

    And then do that with several subjects to get a good sampling.

    But it is impossible to do.

    As it is, with different people doing their preferred technique, making the comparison is meaningless.

    If person A is muscular and athletic and weighs 230 pounds, there is a good chance he will deliver a technique with more power than person B who weighs 140 pounds and is not particularly muscular, even if B has better technical execution and even if his kick is somehow an objectively “better” type of kick than the other.

    So there is no point in these comparisons. Which is more powerful? Can’t be determined and it doesn’t matter.

    If someone can use it effectively, that is all that really matters.
     
  14. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    It matters, especially in this discussion, because:
    1. They're specifically looking at the speed and force of the video in the kick. And their animations try to make it look like pushing against the ground with your hands is going to give it strength. When in reality, a normal kick is done with the leg against the ground, which is going to get more strength.
    2. The only person who is going to have the Capoeira kick be stronger than a typical roundhouse is someone with stronger arms than legs. In that case they will have a stronger hook punch than Capoeira kick, because we've established their arms are stronger.
    3. It pays to know how effective each of your techniques is when used. That way if you feel you have a chance to use one that is most effective, you can choose it. To make it simple, let's say you have a boxer who is deciding between a jab and a cross. If he has an opportunity to make a cross hit, would he choose the jab or the cross? I mean, if he can hit with the jab, why bother with the cross? There is definitely an advantage for knowing which technique to select based on the situation, and sometimes the situation is you want the most power.
     
  15. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    The whole video is pointless. That is where the pointlessness begins. The only useful issue is to show that this kick can also be effective. End of discussion.

    Those videos are built upon nonsense and that is the real point that you need to learn to recognize.
     
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  16. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    Do you disagree with me that knowing how strong your techniques are compared to each other is useful information?
     
  17. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Academically it might be interesting, but it’s not terribly important. I don’t have any need to know exactly how the power of my side kick stacks up to my back kick or roundhouse kick. Even less in how they stack up against someone else’s. I know they are functional and powerful enough to be effective when used appropriately. Beyond that, I don’t much care.
     
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  18. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    Well no, it stopped being scientific in its explanation as they start mixing and matching units of measurement,( again, they seem to do that a lot in these vids,
    The kinetic Energy s by the kick is governed by it's speed and the mass, , so the more body weight/ muscles you can get in to the kick, the greater it's effective mass, , by using the whole ( most)of the body, to generate the kick, the cap, kick is likely to have far more effective mass that someone Pivioting on one foot, that may well make up for any speed deficiet, in the amount of energy tranfer d into the bag, it does however look a lot more difficult to master
     
  19. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    The figures in the video are pretty consistent, and clearly show that the speed of the TKD kick more than makes up for less mass compared to the cap. kick.

    More mass is fine, but if it's sufficiently slower there's less energy.
     
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  20. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    We're not disagreeing, if it's sufficiently slower, then yes less energy, but the point I was replying to was, that they found house kick would be harder, because the standing leg Is stronger than the resting arm doesn't hold true
     

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