Can you tell me anything about the logic behind chambering punches?

[JowGaWolf]

My background is more westernized. I have tried practicing punches in the eastern style (hands in chamber position) and I really couldn't see what's so special about it. Many guys that practice MMA agree that it's useless. Nevertheless, I did some research and absorbed some info about the science behind chamber practice. I'd like to hear your opinion too. If you think it's worth including some eastern punches in my workout, what are your arguments?

I'll reduce my response to a list of what it does.

• It gets the hands arms out of the way. If you don't chamber it then someone will grab it, or your arms won't fit through tight spaces. Tyson used a lot of chambered punches to land upper cuts when close in.
  
• It loads tension on your arms and increases flexibility
• Sometimes you actually have to chamber a punch in a fight in order to transition into another technique.
• Like others have stated it preloads a punch.
• You can chain a punch high or low.

There's more but I'm lazy and this post is already 5 pages long. You have to watch this video in slow motion, but if you watch only one arm, then you'll actually see Mike tyson use both high and low chambers where the fists comes back in a similar manner to what you see in Traditional martial arts.

Here are some MMA fighters using chambered punches. When the fist comes back to the waist or to the chest, then it's is officially chambered

 

[CB Jones]

Do you teach someone how to shoot a basketball, force them to drill that method of shooting a basketball, and then allow them shoot the ball a completely different way in the actual game?

That is a strawman argument that is not accurate with what is going on.

If a drill would improve the shot in a game...yes I would have them continue to do the drills.

 

[Hanzou]

That is a strawman argument that is not accurate with what is going on.

If a drill would improve the shot in a game...yes I would have them continue to do the drills.

Actually it's perfectly analogous to drilling the Reverse Punch technique in Karate in drills, forms, and one step sparring, and then when you're doing Kumite you abandon the technique completely in favor of sloppy western boxing.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Looks like a great way to get socked in the face.

Your comment remind me a solo drill that I taught a long time ago. One of my students said, "Why did you drop your hand down and not protected your head." I asked him to have boxing guard and I did this.

My head was exposed. But my opponent couldn't punch me (I have controlled both of his arms).

In the solo form. since you don't know where your opponent's arms are, it's hard to judge whether your opponent's hands can punch you or not.

You don't always have to use your arms to protect your head from punching. IMO, that's the most conservative strategy.

You can always "guide" your opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm before you move in. In solo form, your arms may look like far away from your head. But your opponent's arm can also be far away from your head too.

 

[CB Jones]

Actually it's perfectly analogous to drilling the Reverse Punch technique in Karate in drills, forms, and one step sparring, and then when you're doing Kumite you abandon the technique completely in favor of sloppy western boxing.

Ok I thought you were referring to the straight punches from horse stance.

I disagree with your opinion on the reverse punch. I think its a good punch but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Hanzou]

Ok I thought you were referring to the straight punches from horse stance.

I disagree with your opinion on the reverse punch. I think its a good punch but you are entitled to your opinion.

It's a "good" punch in what way exactly? The Boxing Cross is better in just about every way.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

LoL! Okay, then what "techniques" is the Reverse Punch drill used for?

It helps develop part of the punching mechanics. Specifically, it isolates part of the mechanics so they can be focused on, rather than relying overly on the other part of the mechanics.

 

[CB Jones]

It's a "good" punch in what way exactly? The Boxing Cross is better in just about every way.

In that it is basically a boxing cross from a karate stance.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's a "good" punch in what way exactly? The Boxing Cross is better in just about every way.

Something being good doesn't preclude something else being better.

 

[Hanzou]

It helps develop part of the punching mechanics. Specifically, it isolates part of the mechanics so they can be focused on, rather than relying overly on the other part of the mechanics.

Really? Okay, let's look at the Reverse punch; What are you developing from that beyond very bad habits?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It's a "good" punch in what way exactly? The Boxing Cross is better in just about every way.

My Karate instructor friend he always sat with the cop car. When the cop wanted to arrest someone and if that person resisted, my friend would give that guy a Karate reverse punch. Since he was not allowed to punch his opponent on the head (only the body), he told me that most of the time, his opponent would drop from just one punch.

Can you drop someone with just one Karate back reverse punch? Of course you can.

 

[Hanzou]

In that it is basically a boxing cross from a karate stance.

Except it isn't.

Boxing Cross:

Reverse Punch:

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Really? Okay, let's look at the Reverse punch; What are you developing from that beyond very bad habits?

What I call a reverse punch isn't materially different from a boxing "cross" or "rear straight". Can you show me what you're calling a reverse punch?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Except it isn't.

Boxing Cross:

Reverse Punch:

Okay, so we don't get lost in discussing at cross points, what are the key differences to you between those? I see things I don't like (including something I consider "wrong" for that punch), but I want to focus on what you're talking about.

 

[Hanzou]

Something being good doesn't preclude something else being better.

Good point. I should have been more clear: The Reverse punch is bad, and the cross is the better way to do that punch.

 

[Martial D]

It helps develop part of the punching mechanics. Specifically, it isolates part of the mechanics so they can be focused on, rather than relying overly on the other part of the mechanics.

I think the thing here is that some of us feel the mechanics it builds are suboptimal, to put it mildly.

This could be why the only place you see punches like that are in point karate and tkd, and they are tip taps.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Really? Okay, let's look at the Reverse punch; What are you developing from that beyond very bad habits?

By the way, how did we get to this from the earlier discussion of punching from jigotai? This is related, but not the same thing, at all.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Good point. I should have been more clear: The Reverse punch is bad, and the cross is the better way to do that punch.

If you're picturing the punch from the video you just posted, I agree. But that wasn't a good reverse punch. A bad reverse punch is, well, bad.

And I'm often frustrated when people use the formal/classical practice version of a punch to do more than what it was meant to -which he is doing in that video.

 

[Hanzou]

Okay, so we don't get lost in discussing at cross points, what are the key differences to you between those? I see things I don't like (including something I consider "wrong" for that punch), but I want to focus on what you're talking about.

Cross: Starts from Boxing guard, less travel time, move towards ball of foot to generate more power in hip rotation.
Reverse: Starts from hip, longer travel time, foot remains planted, power generated from hip rotation.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Except it isn't.

Boxing Cross:

Reverse Punch:

One punch is done in the context that your Opponent doesn't kick. The other one is done in the context that your opponent kicks. A Boxing Cross is not suitable for use against someone who has a strong kick. The weight distribution of the Boxing Cross causes a weaker root.