Can a martial art kills?

[jobo]

Agreed. I was referring to if the boxer (or the other subject) doesn't recognize that it's coming, so they still get a sucker punch.

, maintain your guard at all times, you don't need a sd course to tell you there are street robberies and its quite common for muggers to look like muggers, , they are helpful that way, if they start,wearing three piece suits or cashmere sweaters i might get myself in bother

 

[Gerry Seymour]

, maintain your guard at all times, you don't need a sd course to tell you there are street robberies and its quite common for muggers to look like muggers, , they are helpful that way, if they start,wearing three piece suits or cashmere sweaters i might get myself in bother

Nobody maintains their guard all the time. And even being on guard doesn't mean people will recognize the signs of an impending sucker punch. Recognizing those signals is somewhat skill-based. People who haven't been exposed to those situations and also aren't trained are less likely to recognize the danger.

 

[jobo]

Nobody maintains their guard all the time. And even being on guard doesn't mean people will recognize the signs of an impending sucker punch. Recognizing those signals is somewhat skill-based. People who haven't been exposed to those situations and also aren't trained are less likely to recognize the danger.

no not at all times, you have to sleep, if you are out and about, you read the street or the room and if you someone suspect get in striking distance you should be " on guard" i don't mean with your,fists up, i mean be,aware that someone might strike you, I've been doing this all my life, it's called being,street smart,

it doesn't take " training" it takes common sense, .someone MAY try and rob you, be,aware. That's a short training course,,, its like telling people it might rain, take a hat

i passed a group of youths the other day, it was dark in a deserted urban place, for fifty yards i listened for the sound of fast steps,after me, non came, i relaxed

 

[Gerry Seymour]

no not at all times, you have to sleep, if you are out and about, you read the street or the room and if you someone suspect get in striking distance you should be " on guard" i don't mean with your,fists up, i mean be,aware that someone might strike you, I've been doing this all my life, it's called being,street smart,

it doesn't take " training" it takes common sense, .someone MAY try and rob you, be,aware. That's a short training course,,, its like telling people it might rain, take a hat

i passed a group of youths the other day, it was dark in a deserted urban place, for fifty yards i listened for the sound of fast steps,after me, non came, i relaxed

None of that is contrary to anything I have said. You seem once again to be trying to find something to argue about.

 

[jobo]

None of that is contrary to anything I have said. You seem once again to be trying to find something to argue about.

why is it always about you, I'm giving my opinion, i didn't say you were wrong , rather i was agreeing with you and,adding a bit more by way of my thought on the matter

 

[Paul_D]

If that person who trained to maintain distance also never trained against a hard punch and violent entry, the fact that they still have space doesn't do much good, because a sucker punch might not be necessary.

You are assuming a hard punch or sucker punch will come. If you control the distance, and show you are switched on, you more often than not end the situation at this point (I know I have done it myself, as has my wife) as you have demonstrated you are obviously not the switched off, unaware victim the criminal was looking for.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You are assuming a hard punch or sucker punch will come. If you control the distance, and show you are switched on, you more often than not end the situation at this point (I know I have done it myself, as has my wife) as you have demonstrated you are obviously not the switched off, unaware victim the criminal was looking for.

Actually, I've made the assumption it's still possible. And soft training won't stop it. Whether you end it with simply maintaining distance really depends on the motive. If it's anger, just being switched on doesn't cut it as often as when someone is victim-shopping.

My point was and is that too-soft training leaves people less able to handle violence when it comes. No amount of awareness or de-escalation changes that position (it just changes how likely the violence is to come).

 

[lklawson]

Nobody maintains their guard all the time. And even being on guard doesn't mean people will recognize the signs of an impending sucker punch. Recognizing those signals is somewhat skill-based. People who haven't been exposed to those situations and also aren't trained are less likely to recognize the danger.

This is why Cooper's "Condition" color codes were developed.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[JR 137]

You are assuming a hard punch or sucker punch will come. If you control the distance, and show you are switched on, you more often than not end the situation at this point (I know I have done it myself, as has my wife) as you have demonstrated you are obviously not the switched off, unaware victim the criminal was looking for.

How do you genuinely know you were going to be attacked if you didn’t do these things?

There’s been plenty of times I expected trouble, but nothing came of it.

 

[Paul_D]

How do you genuinely know you were going to be attacked if you didn’t do these things?

There’s been plenty of times I expected trouble, but nothing came of it.

You don't, but then you don't know if you're genuinely going to have a car crash each time you drive to work. So just in case you wear your seat belt. It's too late to put your belt on after you've crashed, just like it's too late to go back and do that stuff after you've been punched. So you do it before hand, to reduce that chances of you getting to the stage were you are hit.

 

[jobo]

You don't, but then you don't know if you're genuinely going to have a car crash each time you drive to work. So just in case you wear your seat belt. It's too late to put your belt on after you've crashed, just like it's too late to go back and do that stuff after you've been punched. So you do it before hand, to reduce that chances of you getting to the stage were you are hit.

i know think the point being made, is that you have no idea, if your action are preventing an attack or not, you have concluded with no evidence that they are. That's fine you can live as you wish,
i on the other hand haven't been attack either and i don't do what you suggest, i wouldnt go round claiming that other people should follow my example as it will prevent an attack. Though i have exactly the same evidence of its effectiveness as you do

 

[Paul_D]

i know think the point being made, is that you have no idea, if your action are preventing an attack or not, you have concluded with no evidence that they are. That's fine you can live as you wish,
i on the other hand haven't been attack either and i don't do what you suggest, i wouldnt go round claiming that other people should follow my example as it will prevent an attack. Though i have exactly the same evidence of its effectiveness as you do

But I do know that I have prevented an attack. On more than one occasion. That doesn't mean every situation is going to end up with an attack of course, but you still take the same precautions.

 

[jobo]

But I do know that I have prevented an attack. On more than one occasion. That doesn't mean every situation is going to end up with an attack of course, but you still take the same precautions.

and as the attack didn't happen how are you so certain that one was imminent ?

 

[Paul_D]

and as the attack didn't happen how are you so certain that one was imminent ?

Experience.

 

[jobo]

Experience.

so you have no idea then? I think there is a large element of conformational bias, in your assessment of the situation.
I'm not saying its bad idea, if your spider senses are tingling, just its not a prerequisit if some someone asks you for,directions or stands next to you at a bus stop

 

[Paul_D]

LOL, yes I can see where you're heading with this and I'm not going to have an arguement with you, but yes. I know.

just its not a prerequisit if some someone asks you for,directions or stands next to you at a bus stop

I think it is. There is no reason a stranger needs to stand close enough to sucker punch you if they are just want to talk. I'd rather be safe than sorry. Like I said, every time you drive your car it doesn't mean you'll crash, but you stil wear your seatbelt, just in case. I'm not suggesting every situation will end in violence, or is started for that purpose, sometimes people are genuinely just lost and want directions. But if they are genuine, I am of the opinion that you don't need to be that close to talk to me.

The discussion was that a boxer is better prepared to deal with violence than someone who trains SD. I am of the opinion that they are not. My viewpoint is that a person who can only deal with violence once they get punched in the face, is not better prepared than someone who can prevent it getting to the point in the first place.

 

[drop bear]

Nobody maintains their guard all the time. And even being on guard doesn't mean people will recognize the signs of an impending sucker punch. Recognizing those signals is somewhat skill-based. People who haven't been exposed to those situations and also aren't trained are less likely to recognize the danger.

And a SD instructor will have training and experience in setting up and countering these ambushes?

 

[drop bear]

i know think the point being made, is that you have no idea, if your action are preventing an attack or not, you have concluded with no evidence that they are. That's fine you can live as you wish,
i on the other hand haven't been attack either and i don't do what you suggest, i wouldnt go round claiming that other people should follow my example as it will prevent an attack. Though i have exactly the same evidence of its effectiveness as you do

Street awareness has exactly this problem in that you dont know what you dont know.

 

[drop bear]

This is why Cooper's "Condition" color codes were developed.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Which I am not sure what purpose they serve. I mean if you wanted to have an example of its raining wear a hat, Coopers color codes would be the one.

So aparently if I am not somewhere threatening like now I can be condition white. Stop scanning the cupboards in my bedroom for monsters.

But if I am walking down the street past a bunch of drunk roided up neck tattooed duschebags. I might want to be in yellow or orange and then use my training to avoid them.

I am with Jojo on this we are not discussing a secret skill here.


Now we could be. I have done bodyguard courses and cash in transit courses where I did learn actual protective and awareness skills. I have done sales courses where I have learned to manipulate people. But I am not paying money for color codes.

 

[drop bear]

Someone who trains specifically for SD will (or should) practice preventing people closing the distance in order to set up a sucker punch. A boxer does not. A boxer probably hasn't even yet realised he's being interviews as a potential victim and that he is already in a SD situation.

I don't see how then someone who allows someone to get close enough to execute sucker punch, is better prepared to deal with violence than someone who is able to prevent a criminal for getting close enough to sucker punch them.

Because a boxing gym has what. less street experience within its ranks than a self defence gym?
Sucker punching is a risk in MMA. People do it off the touch gloves.

Now boxing allready has the mechanics in place to deal with sucker punching. This is because the mechanics of punching dont really change. The same opportunities that need to be present in a ring also need to be present on the street.