michaeledward
Grandmaster
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"By The Book"
- Thread starter MJS
- Start date
Doc
Senior Master
If you were to go to the still standing Pasadena school, or had seen the now gone Santa Monica School, you would see or have seen the famous "logo sign" with "Ed Parkers' logo signature" on top of the building, "Ed Parker Karate Studios." This sign was duplicated on Ed Parker's and the business cards of the various associated business "franchise" schools. "Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate Studios." Also for those that have seen the "Big Red" Franchise Guide, you will see the same on the cover, as well as the banner on top of every page of material included in the guide, "Ed Parker Karate Studios." Although the word "kenpo" was sometimes omitted from major general advertising because the general public was not familair with the term, in favor of the better known "karate," all business cards and materials represented "Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate Studios" branding.
In the sales brochure soliciting school owners for franchise ownership, a picture was included of the Pasadena School and sign, in conjuction with the description, "Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate Studios Headquarters." Turn Key Franchise. Earn up to $20,000 a year. It included further decriptions such as; Certified Karate Instructors, Membership I.K.K.A., Management Manual, Instructors Manual, Copyrighted Parker System, Sales Manual, Operations Forms, Accounting System, Site Selection, Lease Negotiations, Companay Training, Company Supervision, Grading System, Office Supplies, etc.
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
This is sooooooo true!
Now here I respectfully have to disagree. Yes, Huk did play a major roll (along with his original instructor Tom Kelly) in the initial manual read outs however, there were several 'updates' throughout the '80's that Huk WAS NOT part of and yet are still valid additions or revisions to the 'work in progress'.!
There were several other individuals that Ed Parker enlisted to give quality "feedback" on concerning these written supplements/references to training, which in turn resulted in many improvements and clarifications to said material. Also at that time.... there was not a media to disburse all these new adjustments to everyone in the system. So there are several 'versions' out there.
It's funny but written or not.... many overlook or just flat ignore much of this material. If you read the Infinite Insights you'll find a ton of material that Ed Parker found very important or valuable yet when talking to many kenpoists...... they have no clue or 'did not realize' this or that was in the system. I find that fascinating.
Goldendragon
:asian:
Doc
Senior Master
'Bout time you showed up.
michaeledward
Grandmaster
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Thank you for your insights ... and, you are missed around here, you know.
A question for you, Mr. C.
Can you suggest some of the ideas from that period of Huk's exile that offered a substantive change or improvement from what was occuring when he and Mr. Kelley worked on the original manuals?
I'm curious, because I believe that there are two factors in many of the updates from that period.
The first factor may be in different methods of presenting material. I am a professional trainer, and I am always seeking new ways to present material so that it has meaning to students, and that different students are able to assimilate in an appropriate manner. But a change in method does not necessarily mean a change in foundation material.
The second factor, sadly, might be politics. The political machinations in the realm of self-defense are prevasive. I believe person running a small business (as all studio owners do), require personalities with strong, well developed ego. I believe a person who is attempting to spread an idea among those types of persons, would do well to humble himself before those egos.
We have read often enough on this, and other boards, about how Mr. Parker allowed his senior pupils to adapt and change and flex and bend his material. This unselfish act of ego-feeding could be seen as a political act.
Certainly, I wasn't there, so I don't know. And, at this point in my training, I am working to understand the material as presented by Huk. He's a bit of a crumudgeon, and a stickler for the way it was. But also he is a stickler for effective and correct mechanics. If I can get to the point where he is satisified with my execution, maybe I can begin to branch out.
He has told me often enough, there are only so many ways one can block, strike, kick and punch.
Good to see you back.
Mike
Doc
Senior Master
And even fewer to punch, kick, and block anatomically correct.
kenpogary
White Belt
The book.
I have heard this discussion far too many times and I believe everyone has a different opinion of it. As I understand it should be used as guidelines for us to keep kenpo as close to the book as possible. But it is not set in stone. Everyone has different limitations and abilitys that they may need to modify slightly. I believe, and this is only my opinion, that we should try to stay as close to the writings as possible and not change it slightly and say we wrote it. Mr. Parker created American Kenpo. He is the Senior Grand Master and I believe no one should ever use that title. It is his title and in my book this always will be. Grand Master is one thing but he is the only Senior Grandmaster in American Kenpo Karate. He wrote the book and I will do my best to follow it as close as I can with the use of all black belts that studied directly from him that are legitimate 1st generation black belts under Parker. I think keeping unity in American Kenpo is so very important. Every school has some modifications to the system and that is all they are is modifications. Bottom line is look at the technique, form, set etc. If it resembles Ed Parkers creation, then thats because it is. You did not create it. You modified it for your personal preference. Now it is no longer by the book. Here is the problem. If we all change techniques and it no longer resembles the book then a student that did not learn by the book, reads the book, it will not make sense and as time goes on the system will die and no one in the next few generations will know what is Parker material and what is not. It is like a rare bird. If we dont mate them they will become extinct and soon they are gone and can not be brought back. Same thing if it keeps getting changed it will soon be lost forever. Face it, we have about another 40 years max and after that there will be little, if any real 1st generation Ed Parker black belts and if we dont continue to try to keep it as close as we can it will be gone and lost forever. That would truly be a shame. His legacy needs to live on in all of us that train in his system if we want to still call it his system we need to not change the material. I dont want that to happen and it wont happen at my school. Sure, I have changed the sequence of techniques, mainly as to the number for each belt. That is only because I have a commercial school and in order to stay in business people want to progress fast. To comply, there are not as many techniques per belt and ½ ranks to creative more belts to feel the progression but the material is still as close to the book as I can make it. This way I can keep the doors open and most schools now are 90% children. That is another problem. They see kids at other schools making black belt in two or three years. We all know that is not possible in this system so we have to keep them motivated. If we dont and they quit, we have ruined them as now they did not get the chance to make it to black belt as it was too difficult. Anyone training from me is getting the techniques, forms and sets as close as I can to the book, with the information I have and the training I have. I am lucky. I have some wonderful senior teachers/masters to look up to at my school not to mention those out of state that visit often and were very close to the old man. Anyone that sticks it out at my school will learn all the techniques, forms, sets, principal and concepts of the entire system up through 5th black. If they dont stay with it, at least they have a solid foundation if they come back later. If they go to another Ed Parkers school, they will know what they are doing, why they are doing it and understand why American Kenpo should be kept as close to the book as possible and be able to continue their training where they left off or very close to it. Most schools write their own book as to how their school teaches the system. I do and I believe that is fine. Just dont modify the techniques, forms and sets because you want to call them yours as they will never be yours, they will always be just the way you changed the technique, which again is just another modification and any black belt could do that. So as far as Ed Parkers book, please let us all try to keep it as close as we can to what is written, so if one of my students move away and call your school to continue his training and visa versa. The art of Ed Parkers American Kenpo Karate can grow and not just fade away. I am not saying the book is perfect. It is not a teacher, it is a guideline and nothing more. I believe it is a guideline that if we follow as close as we can to what we are taught by the original students of the Ed Parker, then we can all be fairly close and keep the art somewhat intact. Lets face it; we will never, ever be exactly the same at every school. It does give us the opportunity to keep it close.
I have sat in on plenty of tests at numerous schools and it is definitely apparent that it is different from school to school. But if we can all get in a technique line and bang out techniques and are all moving with the same motion and continuity, then it works, right? The closer we all are to being on the same page then the more intact I believe the Ed Parkers American Kenpo Karate system being will remain. Lets keep the Kenpo Brotherhood alive.
Thats my opinion.
Gary Wilson
American Family Kenpo Karate
San Diego, Ca
I have heard this discussion far too many times and I believe everyone has a different opinion of it. As I understand it should be used as guidelines for us to keep kenpo as close to the book as possible. But it is not set in stone. Everyone has different limitations and abilitys that they may need to modify slightly. I believe, and this is only my opinion, that we should try to stay as close to the writings as possible and not change it slightly and say we wrote it. Mr. Parker created American Kenpo. He is the Senior Grand Master and I believe no one should ever use that title. It is his title and in my book this always will be. Grand Master is one thing but he is the only Senior Grandmaster in American Kenpo Karate. He wrote the book and I will do my best to follow it as close as I can with the use of all black belts that studied directly from him that are legitimate 1st generation black belts under Parker. I think keeping unity in American Kenpo is so very important. Every school has some modifications to the system and that is all they are is modifications. Bottom line is look at the technique, form, set etc. If it resembles Ed Parkers creation, then thats because it is. You did not create it. You modified it for your personal preference. Now it is no longer by the book. Here is the problem. If we all change techniques and it no longer resembles the book then a student that did not learn by the book, reads the book, it will not make sense and as time goes on the system will die and no one in the next few generations will know what is Parker material and what is not. It is like a rare bird. If we dont mate them they will become extinct and soon they are gone and can not be brought back. Same thing if it keeps getting changed it will soon be lost forever. Face it, we have about another 40 years max and after that there will be little, if any real 1st generation Ed Parker black belts and if we dont continue to try to keep it as close as we can it will be gone and lost forever. That would truly be a shame. His legacy needs to live on in all of us that train in his system if we want to still call it his system we need to not change the material. I dont want that to happen and it wont happen at my school. Sure, I have changed the sequence of techniques, mainly as to the number for each belt. That is only because I have a commercial school and in order to stay in business people want to progress fast. To comply, there are not as many techniques per belt and ½ ranks to creative more belts to feel the progression but the material is still as close to the book as I can make it. This way I can keep the doors open and most schools now are 90% children. That is another problem. They see kids at other schools making black belt in two or three years. We all know that is not possible in this system so we have to keep them motivated. If we dont and they quit, we have ruined them as now they did not get the chance to make it to black belt as it was too difficult. Anyone training from me is getting the techniques, forms and sets as close as I can to the book, with the information I have and the training I have. I am lucky. I have some wonderful senior teachers/masters to look up to at my school not to mention those out of state that visit often and were very close to the old man. Anyone that sticks it out at my school will learn all the techniques, forms, sets, principal and concepts of the entire system up through 5th black. If they dont stay with it, at least they have a solid foundation if they come back later. If they go to another Ed Parkers school, they will know what they are doing, why they are doing it and understand why American Kenpo should be kept as close to the book as possible and be able to continue their training where they left off or very close to it. Most schools write their own book as to how their school teaches the system. I do and I believe that is fine. Just dont modify the techniques, forms and sets because you want to call them yours as they will never be yours, they will always be just the way you changed the technique, which again is just another modification and any black belt could do that. So as far as Ed Parkers book, please let us all try to keep it as close as we can to what is written, so if one of my students move away and call your school to continue his training and visa versa. The art of Ed Parkers American Kenpo Karate can grow and not just fade away. I am not saying the book is perfect. It is not a teacher, it is a guideline and nothing more. I believe it is a guideline that if we follow as close as we can to what we are taught by the original students of the Ed Parker, then we can all be fairly close and keep the art somewhat intact. Lets face it; we will never, ever be exactly the same at every school. It does give us the opportunity to keep it close.
I have sat in on plenty of tests at numerous schools and it is definitely apparent that it is different from school to school. But if we can all get in a technique line and bang out techniques and are all moving with the same motion and continuity, then it works, right? The closer we all are to being on the same page then the more intact I believe the Ed Parkers American Kenpo Karate system being will remain. Lets keep the Kenpo Brotherhood alive.
Thats my opinion.
Gary Wilson
American Family Kenpo Karate
San Diego, Ca
Hollywood1340
2nd Black Belt
Of what book do you speak Mr. Wilson? Big Red? IIs? The notes posted by Ed Parker Jr.? And what legitament 1st gen should I follow, as each one will have marked differences and similatities? Don't mean to stir the pot, but isn't that the gist of this thread? That "The Book" is as flexible or inflexable as one is willing to make it?
kenpogary
White Belt
LOL,
Yes you are correct as to one first generation to the next there are definite deferents. But all are very similar. I know there is no way possible to have it exact as everyone seems to have been shown differently and I think that has to do with where you were and how accessible you were to Parker back then. If you were at the Pasadena School and trained there and taught there often I tend to believe you would more than likely be the closest. But on the other hand he had a lot of schools from my understand convert from one system to his. There for I would believe that they would be taught to be as close as they could but with different variations which I have seen. Not to say if you were not in Pasadena you did not learn the true and complete system and as you say it who is the truest to what he wanted before he passed away. There were so many changes over the years. But most first generations that I have trained from are very similar in each and every technique. To me that is close enough. Any of the ones that I have worked with could get in a line crank out techniques on each other with minor deferents and it works. Bottom line is which one is correct. I think they all work and each and everyone one of them will make
it work.
As far as the book we mainly use the latest ones that came out after his passing. There are deferents but we compare with the red book also. Over and above all that I trust my teachers knowledge in the end. But 90% I believe is very close. And like I said just my opinion for what it is worth. Just like to see Parkers system stay intact as close as we can. And continue the brotherhood.
Yes you are correct as to one first generation to the next there are definite deferents. But all are very similar. I know there is no way possible to have it exact as everyone seems to have been shown differently and I think that has to do with where you were and how accessible you were to Parker back then. If you were at the Pasadena School and trained there and taught there often I tend to believe you would more than likely be the closest. But on the other hand he had a lot of schools from my understand convert from one system to his. There for I would believe that they would be taught to be as close as they could but with different variations which I have seen. Not to say if you were not in Pasadena you did not learn the true and complete system and as you say it who is the truest to what he wanted before he passed away. There were so many changes over the years. But most first generations that I have trained from are very similar in each and every technique. To me that is close enough. Any of the ones that I have worked with could get in a line crank out techniques on each other with minor deferents and it works. Bottom line is which one is correct. I think they all work and each and everyone one of them will make
it work.
As far as the book we mainly use the latest ones that came out after his passing. There are deferents but we compare with the red book also. Over and above all that I trust my teachers knowledge in the end. But 90% I believe is very close. And like I said just my opinion for what it is worth. Just like to see Parkers system stay intact as close as we can. And continue the brotherhood.
