Breathing...

[GouRonin]

In a recent article on Kenpo in Black Belt Mag, (I know, not a great source but hey ) they were talking about breathing or keyai on strikes. With the multiple rapid strikes the guy who wrote that article felt that only certain strength strikes needed a keyai. That if you tried to keyai on every strike you'd be winded.

Any ideas on this?

 

[Sanxiawuyi]

Originally posted by GouRonin
With the multiple rapid strikes the guy who wrote that article felt that only certain strength strikes needed a keyai. That if you tried to keyai on every strike you'd be winded.

Any ideas on this?

I couldn’t imagine doing a Kiai on every strike. Not only would I be totally winded, I would sound like a freak!

The Okinawans developed the kiai because it suited perfectly their philosophy of “one strike, one kill”. I don’t think this is tailored for Kenpo, and I don’t see it in the Chinese systems either. I have really only seen it in karate systems and some Korean systems.

Just my thoughts.

Sanxiawuyi
:asian:

 

[kenpo_cory]

I agree that if you expell all of your air with every strike you with suffer in one area or the other, speed, power etc. I prefer the tea kettle method, as it is reffered to by my kenpo insructor. It is like a tea kettle that slowly builds steam and releases pressure at a steady pace. This allows for power and greater speed for "rapid fire" strikes. Just my two cents worth.

 

[Sanxiawuyi]

Originally posted by KENPO_CORY
I prefer the tea kettle method, as it is reffered to by my kenpo insructor. It is like a tea kettle that slowly builds steam and releases pressure at a steady pace. This allows for power and greater speed for "rapid fire" strikes. Just my two cents worth.

That is how I was taught as well, and it seems to work for me. Just my four cents worth (I'm from Canada).

Sanxiawuyi
:rofl:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Sanxiawuyi
The Okinawans developed the kiai

Is this correct? I hadn't really thought about it before. It seems like an extension of Chinese breathing methods.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I agree it is almost, if not completly, impossble to fully exhale on every strike. I have only seen one person do this when doing forms and it looks and sounds phoney when he dose the form.
Exhaleing partially on each move and fully on the "kill" moves makes more sence. Try doing a long form and use a full exhale on every move (other than Sanchine)and do the form with speed. Let me know if you get through the form without getting light headed or passing out. Where you able to keep up the speed?
Shadow

 

[Sanxiawuyi]

Originally posted by arnisador
Is this correct? I hadn't really thought about it before. It seems like an extension of Chinese breathing methods.

Yes, like almost everything else Japanese/Okinawan, it is an extension of a Chinese method.

I believe it was developed from the various Chinese systems, which utilized Saam Chien quan (Sanchin in Japanese). The Okinawans then modified to fit “their own” methods of doing kata, and consequently you get the “one strike one kill” philosophy.

Chinese systems that use Saam Chien include:

Crane = He Quan
Dragon = Long Quan
Tiger = Hu Quan
Dog (or Ground) = Gou Quan
Monk = Heshang Quan
Lion = Shizi Quan

Sanxiawuyi
:asian:

 

[Klondike93]

Yes by all means, breathe, as often as possible.

:rofl:

 

[Robbo]

I connect a sharp full exhalation of air (with or w/o sound) with generating power so...

I would think that you would have to quage your breathing to the moves in the techniques. On minor moves you don't have to exhale as much since the intented result of the strike/check/block wouldn't need much power (hammer and a thumbtack idea). However on major moves where you are really hammering your opponent (circling downward elbow comes to mind) then a larger exhalation of air, even a kiai, would aid in increasing your power.

On a different note kiai's can be used for other purposes such as startling an opponent and getting bystander's attention so I think that having a properly executed kiai is a very useful tool.

So basically what Gou posted at the start of this thread.

 

[Goldendragon7]

I should say proper Breathing is very frequently overlooked. It is vital to our survival. There are many different methods and levels of development needed for a variety of uses. Power, protection, distraction, etc. are just some of the uses. It should be worked on daily throughout your workout.

:soapbox:

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by GouRonin
In a recent article on Kenpo in Black Belt Mag, (I know, not a great source but hey ) they were talking about breathing or keyai on strikes. With the multiple rapid strikes the guy who wrote that article felt that only certain strength strikes needed a keyai. That if you tried to keyai on every strike you'd be winded.

Any ideas on this?

I prefer reverse abdominal breathing for maintaining striking power and speed in continuous striking within a minimum time frame! This type of breathing allows me to not use the kai to finish the attacker, yet i can change back ( prior to finishing ) too normal abdominal breathing and use kai on the finish! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[WilliamTLear]

I have never heard this term before. What is it? or better yet How does one do this?

Billy Lear

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by GouRonin
In a recent article on Kenpo in Black Belt Mag, (I know, not a great source but hey ) they were talking about breathing or keyai on strikes. With the multiple rapid strikes the guy who wrote that article felt that only certain strength strikes needed a keyai. That if you tried to keyai on every strike you'd be winded.

Any ideas on this?

I work like a boxer, each punch, or move that goes outwardly gets a "huff". And when I want to emphesize something I give i a big Kiai. This helps me not to hold my breath when doing different movements.

What I find interessting is that some styles say you breath out while your movement is outwardly, but there are styles saying the oppesite. I find this difficult to do, but it should be much "stronger". Any comments?

/Yari

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear
I have never heard this term before. What is it? or better yet How does one do this?

Billy Lear

Reverse Abdominal Breathing is practiced by the practitioner inhaling and gently pulling the Huiyin Cavity (Co-1 or anus) up, and as you exhale gently pushing the huiyin cavity out. You can however tense this area during inhalation and exhalation, if you are training Stationary And Moving Hard Qi Gong! Reverse Abdominal Breathing is usually a Soft Stationary And Moving Qi Qong Practice. A good example is if you are lifting a heavy weight or pushing a car. This energizes your muscular power to a higher, more powerful and spiritual state. "In order to manifest your power to a higher level in martial arts, you must train in your Reverse Abdominal Breathing Technique to be more efficient. This is the secret of Jin and the way of the Dao"[1] The term "Jin"(Jing) is referred in this statment as "Chinese Martial Power"; the combination of "Li" (Muscular Power) and "Qi" (Energy)! Reference; [1.] The Essence Of Martial Power And Qi Gong; Dr. Yang Jwing Ming; chapter 6, p# 162: Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Goldendragon7]

You breath thru your rear??????????????????

 

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by Chiduce
Reverse Abdominal Breathing is practiced by the practitioner inhaling and gently pulling the Huiyin Cavity (Co-1 or anus) up, and as you exhale gently pushing the huiyin cavity out. You can however tense this area during inhalation and exhalation, if you are training Stationary And Moving Hard Qi Gong!

So... uh... er... it's like... Butthole Breathing?

:rofl:

Billy Lear

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear
So... uh... er... it's like... Butthole Breathing?

Ah ah ha ha ha!
:rofl:

 

[WilliamTLear]

I hope that isn't "Reverse Abdominal Laughing". That would be wrong.

:moon:

Billy Lear

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear
I hope that isn't "Reverse Abdominal Laughing". That would be wrong.

:moon:

Billy Lear

Yes Sir; actually when you laugh out loud , you are using reverse abdominal breathing! I know a good joke can be made of it; yet it increases the practitioners execution, application, striking power and speed two fold! Kenpo is known for it's speed striking and flowing; (particularly AK) though i'am aware that it is not the case in some kenpo schools. From my understanding, some schools concentrate on speed flowing; some speed srtiking and some a little of both, if i can remember correcting using the slapping also? Anyway i can say that it keeps the undies clean. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[WilliamTLear]

You're alright Chiduce. At least you have a sense of humor. Which is more than I can say for most Kenpo Practitioners on these forums.

Billy Lear :cheers: