Breathing in fast punches

[JowGaWolf]

I would use a continuous smooth exhale, one of the world's top athletics coach's Micheal Johnson, teaches his students regulated breathwork, especially breath continuity, I.e not holding the breath, along with the biomechanics at each phase of the race and which type of breath pattern for each phase.
I do not beleive this former multi world champion and multi world record holder, would teach the importance of breathwork, if he did not understand or beleive, or there was no evidence for.

Breathing is natural but we see it taught in many different sports as they try to maximize breathing for a specific activity.

 

[JowGaWolf]

are you taking on the debate ?, no one is saying controlled breathing isn't a good idea, or rather uncontrolled breathing is a really bad idea

but Mr johnson was amongst other things a 400 meter runner, clearly he did not not exhale for the duration of a race, if he was breathing on say a 4 second interval thyats 10 breaths in a 400 meter race( or rather 12 on before he set off and one for he last 3 seconds)

but then how do you reconcile that with the claim above that long CHOPPY exhales are best, im sure mr johnson's breaths aren't choppy and that over extending your breathing long past the point were your extracting oxygen is some how increasing your punching power. if ithis is a good idea im sure its documented somewhere

No one said long choppy breathes were the best. Stop stirring crap up.

 

[geezer]

As a Wing Chun guy I do a lot of chain punching. That's fast continuous "machine gun" punching. In warm ups we will do 200-500, and it's like jogging. You try to relax as much as possible and breath naturally, like Jobo said.

However, in application or sparring you don't just unload with a continuous flurry of dozens of punches. That's like a soldier running toward the enemy unleashing a continuous, non-stop stream of automatic fire. He won't hit much and he'll run out of ammo very quickly. Instead the soldier uses short targeted bursts of fire. Similarly in Wing Chun we use short targeted bursts of chain punches or other combinations.

In this situation, I find myself exhaling for the short duration of each burst and inhaling in the moments in between. I would use a bit more air for a more powerful or committed punch, but generally I would not empty my lungs completely - I like to have a little air left in reserve.

Now regarding some of Jobo's comments, I agree that you can inhale when punching if necessary. But non-scientifically speaking, I don't feel that's optimal. In most of the physical activities I've ever done, any sudden exertion of force involving the contraction of major muscle groups is accompanied by a short forceful exhalation. And that's what I do when punching.

Besides, if you inhale when punching, people might think your punches suck.

 

[Martial D]

If you throw 5 punches in 1 second, what will be your breathing pattern?

Since you don't have time to inhale, we may just talk about exhale here.

Do you

1. hold your breath when you throw 5 punches?
2. exhale any way that you may feel like (such as hold breath on your 1st punch, exhale on your 2nd punch, …)?
3. exhale equally and partially for each of your 5 punches such as 1/5, 1/5, 1/5, 1/5, 1/5 and end with empty lung?
4. exhale equally and partially for each of your 5 punches 1/6, 1/6, 1/6, 1/6, 1/6, and end with 1/6 lung capacity?
5. ...

In the following clip, he throws 17 punches non-stop. Did he

1. hold his breath during these 17 punches?
2. exhale partially at any punch he may like.
3. exhale partially and equally at each punch?
4. inhale between punches?
5. ...

Your thought?

​

For me, I favor a long slow exhale for multi part techniques that fill several beats. (Like say, 10 chain punches or a jab jab uppercut combination.)

 

[geezer]

For me, I favor a long slow exhale for multi part techniques that fill several beats. (Like say, 10 chain punches or a jab jab uppercut combination.)

When working with a partner in an exchange or sparing, do you typically unload 10 or more consecutive chain punches?

I was taught to go continuously myself ...but honestly, I find that five shots is pushing it -if my partner is resisting. Combos of three and then a moment's reset are more typical.

 

[JowGaWolf]

As a Wing Chun guy I do a lot of chain punching. That's fast continuous "machine gun" punching. In warm ups we will do 200-500, and it's like jogging. You try to relax as much as possible and breath naturally, like Jobo said.

However, in application or sparring you don't just unload with a continuous flurry of dozens of punches. That's like a soldier running toward the enemy unleashing a continuous, non-stop stream of automatic fire. He won't hit much and he'll run out of ammo very quickly. Instead the soldier uses short targeted bursts of fire. Similarly in Wing Chun we use short targeted bursts of chain punches or other combinations.

In this situation, I find myself exhaling for the short duration of each burst and inhaling in the moments in between. I would use a bit more air for a more powerful or committed punch, but generally I would not empty my lungs completely - I like to have a little air left in reserve.

Now regarding some of Jobo's comments, I agree that you can inhale when punching if necessary. But non-scientifically speaking, I don't feel that's optimal. In most of the physical activities I've ever done, any sudden exertion of force involving the contraction of major muscle groups is accompanied by a short forceful exhalation. And that's what I do when punching.

Besides, if you inhale when punching, people might think your punches suck.

Will you choose to only punch when you exhale? if you run out of breath or get the wind knocked out of you. Will you stop punching or striking up until you gain enough of your breath to exhale?

For example, there is a punching technique that I do where I start the punch on an inhale.
This fuels the rest of the technique. Breathing in at the beginning opens up the punching technique breathing out collapses the technique.

 

[geezer]

Will you choose to only punch when you exhale? if you run out of breath or get the wind knocked out of you. Will you stop punching or striking up until you gain enough of your breath to exhale?

For example, there is a punching technique that I do where I start the punch on an inhale.
This fuels the rest of the technique. Breathing in at the beginning opens up the punching technique breathing out collapses the technique.

There you see. That's what's wrong with rules! ...Like I said above:

...Now regarding some of Jobo's comments, I agree that you can inhale when punching if necessary.

I'm of a "do what works for ya" frame of mind.

 

[Martial D]

When working with a partner in an exchange or sparing, do you typically unload 10 or more consecutive chain punches?

I was taught to go continuously myself ...but honestly, I find that five shots is pushing it -if my partner is resisting. Combos of three and then a moment's reset are more typical.

Not usually lol. Chain punches aren't something I use really if there is a resisting opponent in front of me.

I'm a long rangy guy, and striking square like that isn't playing to my strengths or movement

I do like to practice them on Bob for those situational moments(help I'm stuck in a phonebooth with a mugger!)

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think of it like Sprinting vs Running long distance. The breathing methods are not the same.

I don't do fast spring any more. I just do long distance running. Do you know anybody breath differently in long distance running besides "2 steps inhale, 2 steps exhale"? I assume that's the only way to breath for long distance running.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8 + 4/8

Do you feel that you can generate more punching power when you exhale 4/8 than when you exhale 1/8?

For example, if you throw 3 punches by exhaling

- 1st punch 1/8,
- 2nd punch 2/8,
- 3rd punch 3/8 (reserve 2/8 lung capacity)

For your punching power , 3 > 1 > 1.

IMO, to reserve some lung capacity (such as 2/8) is better than to let your lung be complete empty.

I would use a bit more air for a more powerful or committed punch, but generally I would not empty my lungs completely - I like to have a little air left in reserve.

We agree with each other on this.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't do fast spring any more. I just do long distance running. Do you know anybody breath differently in long distance running besides "2 steps inhale, 2 steps exhale"? I assume that's the only way to breath for long distance running.

Only in competition where runners sprint at the beginning and then sprint at the end.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Breathing is natural but we see it taught in many different sports as they try to maximize breathing for a specific activity.

Deep water diving without oxygen tank is a good example. You will take a full inhale that we don't inhale that much in our daily life.

 

[Buka]

Breathing isn't an over complicated function of the body. With practice, you can even do it in your sleep. (yes, that was an attempt at humor)

In fighting and fight training, or in track and field, any aspect of track and field, all it takes is some hard practice to adjust your body to whatever natural rhythm of breathing works best for you in that particular endeavor. While different events in track and field may have slightly different patterns of breathing, all it takes is to do that particular event a few times. Your body will do the right thing to suck wind into you. Some of it will change as outside of the elite pros, most participants are going to be relatively young men and women. As their bodies develop, lungs included, so will their competitive breathing rhythms. Pretty much the same thing in fighting.

While we certainly have various types of breathing in the arts, we shouldn't overcomplicate it. Just breathe. You'll find out how to manage your breath while fighting by fighting, in training by training, in running by running.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Breathing isn't an over complicated function of the body. With practice, you can even do it in your sleep. (yes, that was an attempt at humor)

In fighting and fight training, or in track and field, any aspect of track and field, all it takes is some hard practice to adjust your body to whatever natural rhythm of breathing works best for you in that particular endeavor. While different events in track and field may have slightly different patterns of breathing, all it takes is to do that particular event a few times. Your body will do the right thing to suck wind into you. Some of it will change as outside of the elite pros, most participants are going to be relatively young men and women. As their bodies develop, lungs included, so will their competitive breathing rhythms. Pretty much the same thing in fighting.

While we certainly have various types of breathing in the arts, we shouldn't overcomplicate it. Just breathe. You'll find out how to manage your breath while fighting by fighting, in training by training, in running by running.

Lol have you every had a chance to see students who hold their breath when sparring. That always amazes me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In the Xing Yi style "solo training", you take a fast inhale (pull your hand back), you then exhale slowly (punch out). I have done Xing Yi Pi Chuan 1,000 times none stop within 45 minutes. After work out, my body felt great.

I truly don't know how to "breath naturally" when I do multiple punches. I will never

- punch when I inhale,
- change from inhale to exhale (or the other way around) in the middle of my punch.

Do you inhale when you punch out?​

 

[dvcochran]

If you throw 5 punches in 1 second, what will be your breathing pattern?

Since you don't have time to inhale, we may just talk about exhale here.

Do you

1. hold your breath when you throw 5 punches?
2. exhale any way that you may feel like (such as hold breath on your 1st punch, exhale on your 2nd punch, …)?
3. exhale equally and partially for each of your 5 punches such as 1/5, 1/5, 1/5, 1/5, 1/5 and end with empty lung?
4. exhale equally and partially for each of your 5 punches 1/6, 1/6, 1/6, 1/6, 1/6, and end with 1/6 lung capacity?
5. ...

In the following clip, he throws 17 punches non-stop. Did he

1. hold his breath during these 17 punches?
2. exhale partially at any punch he may like.
3. exhale partially and equally at each punch?
4. inhale between punches?
5. ...

Your thought?

​

You said 5 in 1 (ONE) second. Why would a person NOT exhale throughout?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Why would a person NOT exhale throughout?

lol. yeah I tried that just to have a better understand of how fast I was supposed to punch.. To get that many punches within a second takes some real effort. Definitely a Wing Chun exercise lol

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You said 5 in 1 (ONE) second. Why would a person NOT exhale throughout?

I don't understand your question. Of course you need to exhale. The question is how?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

lol. yeah I tried that just to have a better understand of how fast I was supposed to punch.. To get that many punches within a second takes some real effort. Definitely a Wing Chun exercise lol

Back in 1973, there was a guy from Taiwan name Li Ming-Hsin. He could kick as pretty as Bruce Lee did (back then, if you can't kick high, you are nobody). He declared that he could throw 6 punches within 1 second. When he arrived NY, a tiger craw guy challenged him and knocked him out in 8 second. I have not heard from him since then.

I believed "6 punches in 1 second" should be the limitation. Of course not all 6 punches can have 100% power in it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The term "breath naturally" is too abstract to me. My long fist system also emphasizes natural breathing. Even today, I still disagree with that concept strongly.

I just finished my daily training. One of my solo drills is:

1. Right hand grab (inhale) and left hand punch (partial exhale).
2. Kick left leg, punch right hand (partial exhale).
3. Kick right leg, punch left hand (partial exhale).
4. Double punches, jump kicks (partial exhale).
5. Punch right hand (partial exhale).

After I had repeated this 5 moves drill 20 times, I found out that I always did my inhale when I grab. I then exhale partially at the end of 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.

If you believe in "natural breath", could you explain how you may breath differently when you do this 5 moves solo drill? Of course we may just talk about solo training here.

Here is the 5 moves combo.

​