Boxing vs kungfu how effective

[JowGaWolf]

I'll say he's definitely not only a boxer. There's movement that looks trained (though perhaps early in training), but doesn't appear to be from boxing. I didn't see anything that looked like a boxer with a few months of training and sparring. Some of that may have been an attempt to adjust to the opponent, but I'd have expected planned adjustments to fall apart when he started getting hit, and the boxing to come out. I saw no boxing - no taking advantage of the elbows being up. No driving in. No covering to get past the flurry of high strikes. I don't think he has any significant training in Western boxing.

Some people are bad at boxing some people are bad at kung fu. No one like getting hit in the face, but some are willing to accept while other's will risk everything else to protect their face.
These guys are boxers just not a good representation of one. A person can be a boxer and be bad at it. The only thing that I don't like about the OP's videos is that a school either created it or is using it to mislead people about the quality of their schools training.

 

[CB Jones]

Some people are bad at boxing some people are bad at kung fu. No one like getting hit in the face, but some are willing to accept while other's will risk everything else to protect their face.
These guys are boxers just not a good representation of one. A person can be a boxer and be bad at it. The only thing that I don't like about the OP's videos is that a school either created it or is using it to mislead people about the quality of their schools training.

Do you have a link for the Shadow's instructional video?

That was awesome. The ropes are getting in the way. Lol

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Some people are bad at boxing some people are bad at kung fu. No one like getting hit in the face, but some are willing to accept while other's will risk everything else to protect their face.
These guys are boxers just not a good representation of one. A person can be a boxer and be bad at it. The only thing that I don't like about the OP's videos is that a school either created it or is using it to mislead people about the quality of their schools training.

And this is the problem with style vs style videos. It's far too easy for the losing side to say "well if they faced a much better [insert losing style here] practitioner, the result would have been different. As such, the only thing you can ever say in such a case is it's not the style that wins, but the fighter. That said, what we can do is look at each style and hypothesise about what would happen if you took an absolute Master (i.e. one that cannot improve anymore) in 2 arts and faced them against each other. In the case of Boxing vs Kungfu, what it comes down to is a contest between a very specialised fighter (the boxer) vs a more well-rounded fighter (the Kungfu Artist). As I said previously, assuming the boxer has done no cross-training and trains purely for competition against other boxers, they will have a glaring weakness in that they aren't practiced at blocking kicks and other low attacks. On the flip-side, their punches will probably be a lot more focused and stronger than the Kungfu Artist. So, assuming both are at an equivalent skill level, it will come down to whether the Boxer can overpower the Kungfu artist before the artist can take out the Boxer's legs.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And this is the problem with style vs style videos. It's far too easy for the losing side to say "well if they faced a much better [insert losing style here] practitioner, the result would have been different. As such, the only thing you can ever say in such a case is it's not the style that wins, but the fighter. That said, what we can do is look at each style and hypothesise about what would happen if you took an absolute Master (i.e. one that cannot improve anymore) in 2 arts and faced them against each other. In the case of Boxing vs Kungfu, what it comes down to is a contest between a very specialised fighter (the boxer) vs a more well-rounded fighter (the Kungfu Artist). As I said previously, assuming the boxer has done no cross-training and trains purely for competition against other boxers, they will have a glaring weakness in that they aren't practiced at blocking kicks and other low attacks. On the flip-side, their punches will probably be a lot more focused and stronger than the Kungfu Artist. So, assuming both are at an equivalent skill level, it will come down to whether the Boxer can overpower the Kungfu artist before the artist can take out the Boxer's legs.

I'd add just one component - overall fitness. If one of these hypothetical masters is 28 and highly fit, while the other is 58 and reasonably fit, the fight will probably go to the more fit one (again, assuming each has mastered his training and practiced with well-resisting partners).

 

[Midnight-shadow]

I'd add just one component - overall fitness. If one of these hypothetical masters is 28 and highly fit, while the other is 58 and reasonably fit, the fight will probably go to the more fit one (again, assuming each has mastered his training and practiced with well-resisting partners).

Agreed, and the longer the fight goes on, the more it benefits the person with greater fitness. You could have the best technique in the world, but if you become exhausted half-way through the fight, you will lose every time.

 

[Flying Crane]

And this is the problem with style vs style videos. It's far too easy for the losing side to say "well if they faced a much better [insert losing style here] practitioner, the result would have been different. As such, the only thing you can ever say in such a case is it's not the style that wins, but the fighter. That said, what we can do is look at each style and hypothesise about what would happen if you took an absolute Master (i.e. one that cannot improve anymore) in 2 arts and faced them against each other. In the case of Boxing vs Kungfu, what it comes down to is a contest between a very specialised fighter (the boxer) vs a more well-rounded fighter (the Kungfu Artist). As I said previously, assuming the boxer has done no cross-training and trains purely for competition against other boxers, they will have a glaring weakness in that they aren't practiced at blocking kicks and other low attacks. On the flip-side, their punches will probably be a lot more focused and stronger than the Kungfu Artist. So, assuming both are at an equivalent skill level, it will come down to whether the Boxer can overpower the Kungfu artist before the artist can take out the Boxer's legs.

Regarding the bolded section, I would not make that assumption. I do not believe boxers use the best technique possible.

And if we are talking about two absolute masters, well then it's like an irresistible force meeting an immoveable object. It just might trigger the end of the universe.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Regarding the bolded section, I would not make that assumption. I do not believe boxers use the best technique possible.

And if we are talking about two absolute masters, well then it's like an irresistible force meeting an immoveable object. It just might trigger the end of the universe.

I say that purely because they practice their punches more than anything else. Let's say both our hypothetical Masters practice 5 hours a day. The Kungfu Master is going to split that training between leg techniques and hand techniques, whereas the Boxer is going to dedicate more time to their punches, because they don't practice any leg or open-hand techniques. Since the Boxer practices punches more than the Kungfu Master, it's safe to assume that the Boxer's punches are going to be better than the Kungfu Master's.

You are argue whether the Boxing techniques are more effective than the Kungfu techniques or not, but you can't deny that the Boxer will be more trained in their punches than the Kungfu Master, simply from the amount of time they dedicate to those few techniques.

 

[Flying Crane]

I say that purely because they practice their punches more than anything else. Let's say both our hypothetical Masters practice 5 hours a day. The Kungfu Master is going to split that training between leg techniques and hand techniques, whereas the Boxer is going to dedicate more time to their punches, because they don't practice any leg or open-hand techniques. Since the Boxer practices punches more than the Kungfu Master, it's safe to assume that the Boxer's punches are going to be better than the Kungfu Master's.

You are argue whether the Boxing techniques are more effective than the Kungfu techniques or not, but you can't deny that the Boxer will be more trained in their punches than the Kungfu Master, simply from the amount of time they dedicate to those few techniques.

Again, I would not make such an assumption.

Boxers can be very good at what they do. They train to punch under a set of rules, and with a type of glove. That has an effect on how they punch. I believe it results in not the best technique or method for punching. Nevertheless, they can be very effective with it, and better fitness and raw strength and intensity of training can trump better technique if the difference is significant.

Keep in mind, you don't need to be more powerful than the other guy, in order to win. You just need to be powerful enough to be effective, and good enough to land more shots than you take, on average, and you land your effective shots first.

So who might be better at punching or more powerful at punching, doesn't really mean much in a debate over a matchup between a boxer and a Kung fu guy. As long as they both are good enough and powerful enough to be effective, then either could be the victor. But, as long as you mentioned it, I am pointing out that I would not automatically assume the boxer is better, or more powerful, at his punches over the Kung fu guy. I do not believe the boxing method is the best punching method. And, since we are talking about a couple of hypothetical perfect masters, well then the better method is better.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Again, I would not make such an assumption.

Boxers can be very good at what they do. They train to punch under a set of rules, and with a type of glove. That has an effect on how they punch. I believe it results in not the best technique or method for punching. Nevertheless, they can be very effective with it, and better fitness and raw strength and intensity of training can trump better technique if the difference is significant.

Keep in mind, you don't need to be more powerful than the other guy, in order to win. You just need to be powerful enough to be effective, and good enough to land more shots than you take, on average, and you land your effective shots first.

So who might be better at punching or more powerful at punching, doesn't really mean much in a debate over a matchup between a boxer and a Kung fu guy. As long as they both are good enough and powerful enough to be effective, then either could be the victor. But, as long as you mentioned it, I am pointing out that I would not automatically assume the boxer is better, or more powerful, at his punches over the Kung fu guy. I do not believe the boxing method is the best punching method. And, since we are talking about a couple of hypothetical perfect masters, well then the better method is better.

I see your point, and I'll be honest it never occurred to me that the punches the Boxers use are specific to the sport and therefore might not be as effective in a fight against a non-boxer. I guess it shows my limited knowledge of Boxing as a sport and Martial Art.

 

[Flying Crane]

I see your point, and I'll be honest it never occurred to me that the punches the Boxers use are specific to the sport and therefore might not be as effective in a fight against a non-boxer. I guess it shows my limited knowledge of Boxing as a sport and Martial Art.

To be honest, I don't know that much about boxing either, but I do know that wearing a boxing glove and wraps puts the hand in a weird shape that is not an effective fist outside of the glove. If you punch bare-fisted with that shape, you will have a lot of problems. A boxer would need to train without gloves and wraps and adapt the shape of his fist into something appropriate to a punch without gloves, and develop a different kind of conditioning to prevent the unprotected and unsupported wrists and fists from injury.

I see boxers do a shadow-box thing, and their fist is half open with the thumb sticking up. That is the shape of a wrapped fist wearing a glove. Punch like that without the supporting wraps and the protective glove, and the hand will be injured.

However, there are body mechanics that differ as well. I think boxers actually do a pretty effective job at harnessing power from the feet on up, and making it a full-body connection power. But I don't think they do the best job of it.

Nevertheless, especially with the fitness and intensity of training that a competitive boxer has, they can be very effective punchers.

 

[CB Jones]

Nothing wrong with a boxers fist. They don't punch with that partially open hand in a real fight.

And I think a straight right hand is probably a boxers best punch but I would guess just about every art has a version of it.

Boxers do do a great job of starting the punch at their feet and getting all their power and weight behind it.

Also boxers learn how to roll and slip punches and help minimize their opponents power. But will probably struggle with kicks and takedowns.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Nothing wrong with a boxers fist. They don't punch with that partially open hand in a real fight.

And I think a straight right hand is probably a boxers best punch but I would guess just about every art has a version of it.

Boxers do do a great job of starting the punch at their feet and getting all their power and weight behind it.

Also boxers learn how to roll and slip punches and help minimize their opponents power. But will probably struggle with kicks and takedowns.

Because boxers fight in a box, and at a specific range to be squared off with each other, the power generation is different from longer distance stuff, although Mohammad Ali was famous for his long distance back knuckles,

 

[Flying Crane]

Nothing wrong with a boxers fist. They don't punch with that partially open hand in a real fight.

And I think a straight right hand is probably a boxers best punch but I would guess just about every art has a version of it.

Boxers do do a great job of starting the punch at their feet and getting all their power and weight behind it.

Also boxers learn how to roll and slip punches and help minimize their opponents power. But will probably struggle with kicks and takedowns.

Yeah, they are effective at what they do. That is true.

 

[drop bear]

Again, I would not make such an assumption.

Boxers can be very good at what they do. They train to punch under a set of rules, and with a type of glove. That has an effect on how they punch. I believe it results in not the best technique or method for punching. Nevertheless, they can be very effective with it, and better fitness and raw strength and intensity of training can trump better technique if the difference is significant.

Keep in mind, you don't need to be more powerful than the other guy, in order to win. You just need to be powerful enough to be effective, and good enough to land more shots than you take, on average, and you land your effective shots first.

So who might be better at punching or more powerful at punching, doesn't really mean much in a debate over a matchup between a boxer and a Kung fu guy. As long as they both are good enough and powerful enough to be effective, then either could be the victor. But, as long as you mentioned it, I am pointing out that I would not automatically assume the boxer is better, or more powerful, at his punches over the Kung fu guy. I do not believe the boxing method is the best punching method. And, since we are talking about a couple of hypothetical perfect masters, well then the better method is better.

There is nothing to base the effectiveness of a kung fu guys punching. There is a record of the effectiveness of a boxers punching.

If we are going to throw around good at what they do. Then we would need to look at what people actually do.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Nothing wrong with a boxers fist. They don't punch with that partially open hand in a real fight.

And I think a straight right hand is probably a boxers best punch but I would guess just about every art has a version of it.

Boxers do do a great job of starting the punch at their feet and getting all their power and weight behind it.

Also boxers learn how to roll and slip punches and help minimize their opponents power. But will probably struggle with kicks and takedowns.

I know a couple of boxers who had to change their punching style. None of them were high-level, so I don't know how it changes at those levels, but the targets they aimed for and the way they formed their fists were done in ways that worked in the ring, but were either ineffective, or harmful to their own hand without gloves.

Again, this is based on my limited knowledge of about 5-6 boxers who were not competing at a particularly high level, so this could very easily not be representative of boxers in general.

 

[CB Jones]

If boxers fists aren't optimal for punching without a glove wouldn't kickboxers and Muay Thai guys have the same problem? Since they all use basically the same kind of glove?

I mean I guess some might not know how to make a fist but I don't see that being that common.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If boxers fists aren't optimal for punching without a glove wouldn't kickboxers and Muay Thai guys have the same problem? Since they all use basically the same kind of glove?

I mean I guess some might not know how to make a fist but I don't see that being that common.

The only disadvantage that I can think of is the lack of conditioning of the fist. If a person is always punching with gloves on with wrist wraps, then the elements that are required to keep the fist strong and to condition the knuckles and hand may not exist. I punch and spar without wrist wraps so I have to count on the muscles, tendons, and ligaments to hold everything together. I count on an increase in bone density in my knuckles to help deal with the impact. Just recently I had a chance to spar with some kickboxing gloves. I felt strange to see the other guys with their wrist wraps and me with just my hand in the glove without wraps.

 

[CB Jones]

The only disadvantage that I can think of is the lack of conditioning of the fist. If a person is always punching with gloves on with wrist wraps, then the elements that are required to keep the fist strong and to condition the knuckles and hand may not exist. I punch and spar without wrist wraps so I have to count on the muscles, tendons, and ligaments to hold everything together. I count on an increase in bone density in my knuckles to help deal with the impact. Just recently I had a chance to spar with some kickboxing gloves. I felt strange to see the other guys with their wrist wraps and me with just my hand in the glove without wraps.

I would agree with that also boxers don't stress punching with the knuckles of the index and middle fingers either.

Breaking of the ring finger bone or pinky finger bone is common enough that it is called a Boxer's fracture.



True story: When is was 14 I had a Boxers fracure of my right hand....my dad thought it was just a "jammed knuckle" and spent about 10 minutes pulling on it and flexing it trying to "crack" my knuckle. Ouch.

Next day mom to me to a doctor and we found out the bone was broke.

It didn't heal straight and even today it is curved slightly.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I would agree with that also boxers don't stress punching with the knuckles of the index and middle fingers either.

Breaking of the ring finger bone or pinky finger bone is common enough that it is called a Boxer's fracture.



True story: When is was 14 I had a Boxers fracure of my right hand....my dad thought it was just a "jammed knuckle" and spent about 10 minutes pulling on it and flexing it trying to "crack" my knuckle. Ouch.

Next day mom to me to a doctor and we found out the bone was broke.

It didn't heal straight and even today it is curved slightly.

This is exactly what it is. Boxers dont have to worry about their punching alignment because of the extra protection they have towards the structure of their punch, and yet they still end up with boxer's fractures. Now imagine them punching in the same way without the protection of the gloves or, more importantly IMO, the wrist wrapping.

 

[drop bear]

Boxers do have to worry about punching a moving guy in the head as hard as they can for an extended period of time.

It is a lot more damaging to the hands than what kung fu guys do with their hands.