Boxing or American Kickboxing

[UserC]

Apart from the fact he didn't do kickboxing,his brother Vitali was the kickboxer who went into boxing. His kick boxing record was 32-2 with 22 KOs.
So what year was this sparring match?

2015 before the Tyson Fury match.

 

[UserC]

Apart from the fact he didn't do kickboxing,his brother Vitali was the kickboxer who went into boxing. His kick boxing record was 32-2 with 22 KOs.

What has that got to do with anything? I told you I know the bottom of the barrel in pro boxing, at least heavyweights, and it's dreadful. A K1 KB should beat those guys in a boxing match

 

[Tez3]

2015 before the Tyson Fury match.

Forgive me if I take that with a very large pinch of salt.

 

[Headhunter]

2015 before the Tyson Fury match.

Care to tell us his name then?

 

[UserC]

Jerome Le Banner, nr of boxing fights: 6

Ray Sefo, nr of boxing fights: 6

There's something about this number that intrigues me! Would I be crazy to think that Lebanner got in trouble his last fight and decided to call it quits before going the path of Sefo?

 

[UserC]

Vid Ray Sefo KTFO by a boxing can

 

[Headhunter]

Jerome Le Banner, nr of boxing fights: 6

Ray Sefo, nr of boxing fights: 6

There's something about this number that intrigues me! Would I be crazy to think that Lebanner got in trouble his last fight and decided to call it quits before going the path of Sefo?

Yes

 

[Headhunter]

Vid Ray Sefo KTFO by a boxing can

Vid: 2 guys have balls to step in the ring and fight for the entertainment of some guy who's never done so

 

[pdg]

The problem here is nothing you've cited goes anywhere near showing that a random boxer hits harder or better than a random kickboxer.

A kickboxer losing against a boxer doesn't illustrate that one hits harder or better than the other.

It might show slightly that one can block/dodge/etc. punches better than the other, but even that's a push.

The closest comparison I can think of is a video analysing kicks (capoeira vs tkd vs karate vs muat thai). It was very obviously weighted to demonstrate how powerful capoeira is, so they played with the calculations and priority of measurements until they 'proved' what they wanted.

I bet exactly the same could be done with punches, boxing vs kickboxing vs whatever you want - and show that any one you want has "moar powah".

 

[UserC]

The problem here is nothing you've cited goes anywhere near showing that a random boxer hits harder or better than a random kickboxer.

A kickboxer losing against a boxer doesn't illustrate that one hits harder or better than the other.

It might show slightly that one can block/dodge/etc. punches better than the other, but even that's a push.

The closest comparison I can think of is a video analysing kicks (capoeira vs tkd vs karate vs muat thai). It was very obviously weighted to demonstrate how powerful capoeira is, so they played with the calculations and priority of measurements until they 'proved' what they wanted.

I bet exactly the same could be done with punches, boxing vs kickboxing vs whatever you want - and show that any one you want has "moar powah".

It's not essential to why kickboxers have way inferior boxing but it is a fact. Someone who only trains punching should punch harder than those that don't.

 

[UserC]

The problem here is nothing you've cited goes anywhere near showing that a random boxer hits harder or better than a random kickboxer.

A kickboxer losing against a boxer doesn't illustrate that one hits harder or better than the other.

It might show slightly that one can block/dodge/etc. punches better than the other, but even that's a push.

The closest comparison I can think of is a video analysing kicks (capoeira vs tkd vs karate vs muat thai). It was very obviously weighted to demonstrate how powerful capoeira is, so they played with the calculations and priority of measurements until they 'proved' what they wanted.

I bet exactly the same could be done with punches, boxing vs kickboxing vs whatever you want - and show that any one you want has "moar powah".

You don't think Ray Sefo, famous for his "great hands" in K1 getting hammered by a boxing can, Illustrates my point?

 

[pdg]

It's not essential to why kickboxers have way inferior boxing but it is a fact. Someone who only trains punching should punch harder than those that don't.

Well that's utterly different reasoning to anything you've previously said.

 

[pdg]

You don't think Ray Sefo, famous for his "great hands" in K1 getting hammered by a boxing can, Illustrates my point?

No.

That doesn't show that one hits harder than the other.

If I punch you and you fall over, then you punch me and I stay upright, it doesn't show that my punch is harder than yours.

 

[Headhunter]

It's not essential to why kickboxers have way inferior boxing but it is a fact. Someone who only trains punching should punch harder than those that don't.

No just no stop you're embarrassing yourself

 

[UserC]

No.

That doesn't show that one hits harder than the other.

If I punch you and you fall over, then you punch me and I stay upright, it doesn't show that my punch is harder than yours.

Why are you so obsessed with my power claim?

 

[Dirty Dog]

The closest comparison I can think of is a video analysing kicks (capoeira vs tkd vs karate vs muat thai). It was very obviously weighted to demonstrate how powerful capoeira is, so they played with the calculations and priority of measurements until they 'proved' what they wanted.

Did you actually watch the video? Of the three roundhouses (throwing in the Japanese stylist with the front kick was silly - Apples to Oranges...), the Capoeira kick was slower than both the Muay Thai and TKD roundhouses. It did deliver a stronger impact than the MT kick (though since it both traveled at a slower speed and a longer distance, it would seem to be easier to block or evade), but was both far slower and had far less impact than the TKD roundhouse.
So I don't see how it was "weighted" in the manner you describe.

Of course, the same test done with different practitioners might well give different results. With a sample size of one, the only thing a "test" like this proves is that this one person threw one kick that was harder than the one kick thrown by that other one person. Despite the presence of computers and electronic gadgets, it's not even remotely possible to call it science.

 

[UserC]

Did you actually watch the video? Of the three roundhouses (throwing in the Japanese stylist with the front kick was silly - Apples to Oranges...), the Capoeira kick was slower than both the Muay Thai and TKD roundhouses. It did deliver a stronger impact than the MT kick (though since it both traveled at a slower speed and a longer distance, it would seem to be easier to block or evade), but was both far slower and had far less impact than the TKD roundhouse.
So I don't see how it was "weighted" in the manner you describe.

Of course, the same test done with different practitioners might well give different results. With a sample size of one, the only thing a "test" like this proves is that this one person threw one kick that was harder than the one kick thrown by that other one person. Despite the presence of computers and electronic gadgets, it's not even remotely possible to call it science.

Not only that, they threw a kick once, and the Karateka did a front kick.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You don't think Ray Sefo, famous for his "great hands" in K1 getting hammered by a boxing can, Illustrates my point?

No.
Even if the example is true, a sample size of one is meaningless.
And, further, the person who wins a boxing match isn't always the one who hits harder. You may hit harder, but if I'm slipping, evading, blocking, covering, and you can't land a solid strike, that power doesn't matter.
Assume I hit with only 75% of your power. Or even only 50% of your power. If I hit you cleanly ten times as often, even with less power, who is likely to win? I'll win on points, if nothing else.

 

[UserC]

So I don't see how it was "weighted" in the manner you describe.

.

No he's right. They claimed towards the end that he capoeira kick was the most effective by force to mass ratio, because if you take into account speed+force, the Capoeira kick had more power relative to speed. Still BS though because the Capoeira kick had more body behind it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Not only that, they threw a kick once, and the Karateka did a front kick.

Just as I'm not sure pdg actually watched the video, I'm not at all sure you actually read my post. If you did, you clearly didn't understand it.