Boxing as a Martial Art

[Gnarlie]

I don't care about him.

That says it all.

Actually he might have been a blue belt! Anyway, doesn't matter. Belt indications are about as indicative as Astrology signs. Silly system.

In their context, Kup and Dan grades are fine.

 

[Laplace_demon]

That says it all.



In their context, Kup and Dan grades are fine.

No. There are 3rd Dans who can't kick. Bas Rutten is one who happens to agree with me. He even commented on it in a broadcast.

 

[Gnarlie]

No. There are 3rd Dans who can't kick. Bas Rutten is one who happens to agree with me. He even commented on it in a broadcast.

What 'no'?

That's this thing called "context" that you don't understand. Every individual is different and has different strengths and weaknesses. Acquaintance of mine can't kick for reasons I won't go into, but he would sure as hell be able to box your ears!

 

[Laplace_demon]

No to all belts. You said it yourself, every person is unique and that includes natural ability.

 

[Tez3]

Bas Rutten is one who happens to agree with me. He even commented on it in a broadcast.

He mentioned you by name then? It may be pedantic but usually the form is to say you agree with Bas Rutten rather than the other way because then you don't sound arrogant. It sets the tone for respectful discourse.
Next thing, you say Bas Rutten said so in a broadcast, please show that broadcast otherwise all we have is your post saying he said that. You should know that from your studies.

 

[Transk53]

No to all belts. You said it yourself, every person is unique and that includes natural ability.

Natural ability to do what?

 

[Gnarlie]

There are incompetent but qualified people in every field you might care to name. Doesn't make qualifications invalid.

 

[drop bear]

There are incompetent but qualified people in every field you might care to name. Doesn't make qualifications invalid.

There would have to be a percentage that makes them suspect.

 

[Gnarlie]

There would have to be a percentage that makes them suspect.

Agree, but I have met way more competent Kukkiwon certified than I have incompetent ones.

 

[Orange Lightning]

I just see boxing as a intrinsic core ability. In the playing ground, a kid naturally strikes out with his fist, he will not go through a routine of forms. Just my personal take in simplistic terms.

Ever see a totally untrained person try to throw boxing punches? It resembles boxing in the sense that you know they're trying to box, but the similarity stops there. Or at least, from my modest experience. It's even hard to get them to punch marginally well without a lot of practice and instruction.

I used to not understand why TMAs make people rehearse extremely simple movements over and over before they get to hit anything. Or even spar for that matter. After trying to teach a few people to punch, I understand it completely.

I can't rightly explain it, but I understand where you're coming from on this subject. But I agree with the rest here that it is no lesser or easier to learn than anything else. The sentiment that boxing is overly simplistic would be to misunderstand boxing.
I do have to wonder though, to what degree it could be instinctive or easier to learn for some people. Particularly from a certain region or heritage. Boxing has been around since....well, history.

 

[Transk53]

I can't rightly explain it, but I understand where you're coming from on this subject. But I agree with the rest here that it is no lesser or easier to learn than anything else. The sentiment that boxing is overly simplistic would be to misunderstand boxing.
I do have to wonder though, to what degree it could be instinctive or easier to learn for some people. Particularly from a certain region or heritage. Boxing has been around since....well, history.

This is why I have to be very careful with how I convey myself, I still usually get it wrong. Anyway, I did not mean boxing is simplistic, that's me trying to put a point across that a majority may understand. Obviously I cannot tell someone with a high degree of experience with martial arts what I mean, when I don't have that myself. Obviously I am still resolute with my belief and opinions thereafter, and so I should be. Obviously to another reader there will be times where something that I post seems contradictory, of course though that would be reading the diverse collection of thoughts and information on these forums, a good majority being that I don't have a bloody clue about a lot of it, but I still try to convert that into what I can understand. No doubt a lot of the time I am wrong. There are styles of martial arts written about around here that I have never even heard of like many novices. But it is what it is. I am what I am. I believe what I believe.

Got no issues at all with boxing a martial art, or not being a martial art. I suppose to really know how far boxing as a whole goes back through known history, would be to compare with a martial art that goes back through known history. I had an argument with someone once regarding what the Romans did. A form of boxing, or just street fighting kind of thing. I still mean to delve deeper at some point.

 

[Steve]

Interesting note about boxing is that it's been around for a lot longer than many of the styles of MA we all currently train. Off the top of my head (so forgive a few decades here and there), most MA styles were codified in around the early 20th century. Judo goes back to the late 1800s. And all are preceded by the Marquess of Queensbury rules for boxing, which came around, i think the mid-1800s. There were boxing rules even well before that governing the bareknuckle bouts.

 

[Laplace_demon]

This is why I have to be very careful with how I convey myself, I still usually get it wrong. Anyway, I did not mean boxing is simplistic, that's me trying to put a point across that a majority may understand. Obviously I cannot tell someone with a high degree of experience with martial arts what I mean, when I don't have that myself. Obviously I am still resolute with my belief and opinions thereafter, and so I should be. Obviously to another reader there will be times where something that I post seems contradictory, of course though that would be reading the diverse collection of thoughts and information on these forums, a good majority being that I don't have a bloody clue about a lot of it, but I still try to convert that into what I can understand. No doubt a lot of the time I am wrong. There are styles of martial arts written about around here that I have never even heard of like many novices. But it is what it is. I am what I am. I believe what I believe.

Got no issues at all with boxing a martial art, or not being a martial art. I suppose to really know how far boxing as a whole goes back through known history, would be to compare with a martial art that goes back through known history. I had an argument with someone once regarding what the Romans did. A form of boxing, or just street fighting kind of thing. I still mean to delve deeper at some point.

I think it depends on who's boxing. Mike Tyson fought technically and fast. George Foreman only clubbed, hammered and threw everything but the kitchen sink. Unlike martial arts in general, Western Boxing tends to be very generic as to technical skill level. In other martial arts, they at least try to approximate an ideal. But not boxers.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Mike Tyson fought technically and fast. George Foreman only clubbed, hammered and threw everything but the kitchen sink

If you don't recognize that George Foreman had a level of technical skill far beyond that of most martial artists you will ever encounter, then you are definitely missing a lot.

Unlike martial arts in general, Western Boxing tends to be very generic as to technical skill level.

I think your English is letting you down here - that sentence doesn't convey a comprehensible meaning. Could you rephrase to explain the point you are trying to make?

 

[Laplace_demon]

If you don't recognize that George Foreman had a level of technical skill far beyond that of most martial artists you will ever encounter, then you are definitely missing a lot.



I think your English is letting you down here - that sentence doesn't convey a comprehensible meaning. Could you rephrase to explain the point you are trying to make?

Is that why Ali ridiculed Foremans punching? The guy rarely landed anything on him and was slow. There is nothing wrong with my English. Boxing is very generic in the context of punching proficiency. Some are truyl awful, while others are truly great. People always want to mention the very best in favour of Boxing, when it's far from how it looks overall.

 

[Transk53]

Is that why Ali ridiculed Foremans punching? The guy rarely landed anything on him and was slow. There is nothing wrong with my English. Boxing is very generic in the context of punching proficiency. while others are truly great. People always want to mention the very best in favour of Boxing, when it's far from how it looks overall.

Do you mean that is why some boxers learn combinations with a very good jab philosophy, and the punchers go for the power?

 

[Transk53]

Unlike martial arts in general, Western Boxing tends to be very generic as to technical skill level.

Surely that would apply to others as well generally. You have so many punches in boxing, so many strikes in karate, so many grapples in jiu jitsu. Is it all not generic after being formulated?

 

[Laplace_demon]

Do you mean that is why some boxers learn combinations with a very good jab philosophy, and the punchers go for the power?

Has nothing to do with style. Tysons technical level was very high.

Surely that would apply to others as well generally. You have so many punches in boxing, so many strikes in karate, so many grapples in jiu jitsu. Is it all not generic after being formulated?

Successful Karate/TKD fighters and high technical level correlate heavily. The same is not true for Boxing. Marciano was labelled a complete amateur in technical terms by Joe Lous, ahead of their fight, yet was a warrior and could still pack it in. Louis swore to give up boxing, or something to that effect if he didn't beat him.

 

[Transk53]

Has nothing to do with style. Tysons technical level was very high.



Successful Karate/TKD fighters and high technical level correlate heavily. The same is not true for Boxing. Marciano was labelled a complete amateur in technical terms by Joe Lous, ahead of their fight, yet was a warrior and could still pack it in. Louis swore to give up boxing, or something to that effect if he didn't beat him.

All of their technical level is high. Marciano was blessed with a heavy punch, but he had to work his **** off to make the grade. Purists like purists.

 

[Tez3]

Is that why Ali ridiculed Foremans punching?

That's called showmanship. Sells tickets.