Bong Hyunf Il bo video

[jim777]

Hi folks,

I'm wondering if anyone knows of an online video of this basic bong form (like the type of videos of various hyngs and katas that are floating around). I don't study Tang Soo Do, but we had a visiting instructor come to our class last week and teach this form, and I'd really like to continue practicing it and not forget it (I'm still a white belt). If anyone knows of a link, or where I could possibly buy a video of the bong hyungs (il bo, e bo, sam bo, etc) I'd really appreciate it.

thanks!

jim

(sorry about the misspelling in the title!)

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

I did a (bad) video of Bong Hyung Cho Dan a while ago...and I believe one of Bong Hyung E Dan more recently, though they have no sound and my technique's off on some parts.

 

[tsdclaflin]

I found this on the web sometime ago added the link to my website (www.wildhorsemartialarts.com/links)

http://www.natkd.com/pyong_ahn_forms.htm

Keep practicing.

I have word document description if you want.

 

[jim777]

JT, I'd be really interested in seeing those videos, if you don't mind. Are they on the net somewhere?

Ken I appreciate the links! I don't actually see any Bo forms on them though, am I missing them? Are the staff forms called something else on that page? I'm specifically looking for a Bo staff (bit redundant ) form called Bong Hyung Il bo.

thanks again guys,

jim

 

[Master Jay S. Penfil]

The problem with most Tang Soo Do organizations that teach bong/bo hyung is that they don’t really understand the weapon and its use, and therefore, don’t use the weapon in a correct fashion.

I have for many years referred to the way that these organizations perform these hyung as Keecho hyung, with a stick and a kick.

I have studied Okinawan karate since 1972 and have learned bo kata from those who know this weapon and the philosophy of movement that must be understood in order to be effective.

For example:
If you are doing the I.T.F. bong hyung you are working in Chungul Ja Sae (front stance). By using this stance you are forced to hold the bong/bo to the side of your body leaving half of your body exposed, and all of your movements will be off center and off balance. The stance used in Okinawan bo kata is know a Zenkutsu-Dachi. This stance can be performed (if you are a Korean practitioner) by facing 45 degrees to the front in a front stance, and then simply rotate your upper body back to front. This will cause your feet to be on one center line, but facing 45 degrees to one side. Both feet should be facing in the same direction.

When holding the bong/bo in this stance, the weapon is on the same line as both feet, providing you the ability to present a smaller target for your opponent, while allowing the weapon to move in a more balanced fashion with your body.

The hand positions on the weapon are extremely important to have correct, but in many of the techniques presented in the I.T.F. forms as well as others, many, if not most of the hand positions are incorrect, leaving you vulnerable to loosing your weapon on contact with your opponent or your opponents weapon with any level of resistance.

If you are interested in going over these principles and philosophies of movement, contact me and we can work out the arrangements to get together.

I have an instructor here in Michigan (Shihan Peter Carbone). Shihan Carbone is an 8th dan in Kobudo, and travels back and forth to and from Okinawa on a regular basis. He is interested in spreading his knowledge to anyone who is interested in learning. The nice thing about what he teaches is that it doesn’t matter what “Karate” system you are involved in learning. This Kobudo training will enhance your empty hand training, and it won’t change your empty hand system.

Contact me for more information on this training…


Yours in Tang Soo Do,


Master Jay S. Penfil


TANG SOO!!!

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Selections from my (badly done, and badly lit) bong hyung cho dan are in a compilation video I did (back when I was a red belt) on Youtube:

. The bong hyung e-dan one (and maybe a sam dan one...have to look) is unfinished and in several pieces, though if you want to take a look, I can find them.

Re: Master Jay - by your logic, chungul jase is no good for anything. The bong forms I've learned operate on much the same principles as weaponless forms, only with the addition of the bong as the striking/blocking element. To execute a proper low block with a bong, you have to come around your body and bring the bong so it goes slightly past your knee. Then, the opponent's attack is thwarted, and the opponent is the one open for a counterattack. Same goes for high blocks. You block to where your opponent is striking, thus tying up his hand/foot while you counter. As with any technique, the power still comes from the waist; the only real difference is what you use to attack. And if you keep a good grip on your bong (hands at thirds), there's no reason for you to drop it.

It might also be worth noting that bong hyung cho dan's first two moves are in hugul jase, and that bong hyung sam dan involves sa go rip jase (45-degree horse stance). While the stance you propose is interesting, and probably very effectice, it doesn't negate anything about chungul jase - no offense, but if the stance wasn't any good, it wouldn't have survived all these years.

 

[Master Jay S. Penfil]

I didn’t say that the stance wasn’t any good…

What has to be understood is that the addition of the weapon, in this case the bong/bo, calls for a change in the body alignment to the opponent, and the orientation of the body to make the best use of the weapon.

With regard to the hand position in many of the techniques, as taught by associations such as I.T.F., the manor that the weapon is being gripped is weak, and will most definitely cause you to loose the weapon upon impact.

After 35 years of training in both Tang Soo Do and Isshinryu (primary systems), and in Shotokan and Motobu-Ha S h i t o Ryu (secondary systems), I have a serious level of understanding in this area. As stated, I would be happy to have you in for training where I can illustrate these principles for you. They will be immediately understood at that time, and you will like what you see.

I have taught seminars all over the country for members of other Tang Soo Do associations and in every seminar the participants have given me only positive feedback on what I have shared.

Contact me if you are interested…


Yours in Tang Soo Do,


Master Jay S. Penfil


TANG SOO!!!

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Seriously, though, most of what I do while waiting for class to start (when I'm not practicing another form) is practicing with a bong. I don't see your point about it being a weak grip at all. So long as you keep your grip tight, and your hands at thirds (so the weight is evenly distributed), there's no good reason to lose your bong. That's why we're taught to roll back our wrists when we do a high block, so the bong is still resting fully on the palm instead of just held in the fingers. And with any other block, the grip is still maintained. Especially when doing a middle or face strike, you have to make sure the forward hand has its fingers behind the direction of the bong, both to make sure all the power goes into the strike and that you don't lose your grip. I could demonstrate these things via video, if I had the time; maybe I will, sometime.

Your point about the inefficiency of the stance, however, still makes me wonder what kind of TSD you practice. As I said before, a technique with a bong only really changes in regard to the striking implement. You block right to where you need to block, leaving your opponent off-balance and open, not you.

Example: an opponent comes at me with a downward strike (bong or fist). I block high, catching the attack with my bong. The opponent's hand(s) are tied up by my bong, and my next move is to turn my waist slightly and strike him in the head or gut with the end of my bong. The only counter to that would be a *very* fast reverse punch (assuming hand attack) or a front kick (also *very* fast, since it has to come up, and I don't).

Example 2: an opponent comes at me low (foot, hand, weapon, whatever). I block low, stopping the bong just past my knee. The opponent's striking implement is now away from my body, meaning he's rather open from the front. Even before he would be able to come at me with a reverse punch, I'd be able to smack him with the other end of my bong. His coming in with a second attack would only hurt him more.

The fact is this: a semi-sideways stance may seem like a good idea to present less of a target for your enemy, but it directs your body away from the direction you're going to travel. That's why in chungul jase both your feet have to be pointed the same direction - forward. Not only that (and this is the second reason both feet are forward in chungul jase), but it makes you easier to push over. With both feet pointed forward, you're anchored into the ground in case your opponent wants to push you back, but you also have the ability to move forward quickly if you need to do so. There's absolutely nothing wrong with bong techniques in chungul jase, or *any* TSD stance.

 

[MSTCNC]

I've always enjoyed looking over the various videos on Master Dennis MacHenry's wesite located HERE.

Lots of good stuff there...

The bong forms are down near the bottom. Not sure if it will match up with what you are doing or not...

Your Brother in the arts,

Andrew

 

[jim777]

I appreciate all the replies folks, and I had actually seen Master MacHenry's site (I have that one bookmarked, as we all do, I suppose!). The bong forms I've found have all been differnt from the one I'm looking for, and I'll likely end up paying the 40 bucks for the Tang Soo Do DVD that includes it (and the second bong hyung, e bu) at the end. I think it will be money well spent and give me a better insight with the art form as a whole as well. Win/win
I can fully believe that the particular form I'm looking for may not be the best way to learn defense with a bong, and it may not be filled with useful moves and blocks. I sort of look at it as an 'intro to new weapon' sort of thing to get you familiar with spinning a heavy stick over your head while C-stepping I would love to get a much better idea of the weapon in the future, and it will be something that I definitely seek out going forward.

However, and I guess I should have been clearer about this to begin with, my main goal in trying to master this form was to show my respect to the 3rd Dan who took the time to show it to me. When he returns in the future I want to have the form mastered, and not shrug my shoulders and say "I remember some of it". He didn't send me off to the other side of the dojang with other lower belts to practice forms or something when he taught it to us, he made sure I had a bong and the whole class went together as one, from white belt to black belt. That kind of respect desreves the same back, you know? I believe this instructor will be back in April or May, and I want to be able to do it perfectly by then.

jim

 

[Master Jay S. Penfil]

Jim,
Who is the instructor that shared this hyung with you, and where is he from?

Do you have his contact info to pass on?

If yes, please do so.


To everyone:

Who would be interested in setting up a seminar for Bong/Bo training?

If you would be interested, respond here, or send me a direct email at: [email protected]


Yours in Tang Soo Do,


Master Jay S. Penfil


TANG SOO!!!

 

[jim777]

I don't remember his name offhand, but he was a white belt with our head instructor 20 years ago or so. He was invited to come see the school, and run a class, and decided to show us something he thought we'd find interesting and new, that we wouldn't otherwise be exposed to in a traditional (I suppose!) TKD school. I'll try and get some contact information for him. My understanding is that he has just opened his own school in Eastern Pennsylvania somewhere (I'm in South Jersey myself).

jim