So there has been much discussion and debate on the thread comparing revolvers with semi-automatic handguns but how about with rifles, bolt action vs semi-auto? I've heard people claim the bolt action is stronger and sturdier and more accurate. The semi-auto of course has a much faster rate of fire. Thoughts?
Bolt Action vs Semi-Auto
- Thread starter PhotonGuy
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Danny T
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Both are excellent within their perspective limitations.
Is the modern day sniper still prefered as a bolt action for like a specific reason. Like are the dynamics of a shot different between a semi auto and a single action trigger. Would have thought a bolt action would have a lot more give in the trigger over a semi auto? Hope I have worded that right. Would seem to me that a semi auto would a bit less forgiving in control. Like if you twitched, bang.
Tgace
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Bolt actions have some advantages for single, accurate shots at certain ranges. Construction advantages like floated, pillar mounted barrels in bedded stocks are more common in bolt action rifles. It's usually cheaper and easier to customize a bolt action for more precision at long ranges than it is for semi-autos. Bolts don't have parts that move around in the weapon after the shot. Bolts have advantages in feeding custom, hand loaded rounds.
Semi auto long guns typically have gas ports drilled into the barrels that tap off gas to operate the loading mechanisms. This can add some strange barrel harmonics (vibrations, waving, etc) that can effect extreme accuracy/long distance style shooting. But we are talking about fractions of inches depending on what distance you are talking about. Semi-auto sniper rigs can work just fine within some range/purpose envelopes.
But for all of that...we are talking about advantages for a specific type of shooting at specific ranges. For fighting with a weapon at ranges that are going to be relatively close (100-200 yards) and the goal is to hit a man sized target vs a precision single-shot, the accuracy of a semi-auto is just fine and the ability to place multiple rounds quickly can be a distinct advantage.
"Accuracy" can be a difficult concept for some people to grasp. I'm a trained, but far from "high speed" shooter and I can hit 6" steel targets at 100 yards from a standing position with a semi-auto M4.
But if you are talking about head shots at 200 yards or a hostage shot at 100, the type of accuracy you are talking about is somewhat different.
Semi auto long guns typically have gas ports drilled into the barrels that tap off gas to operate the loading mechanisms. This can add some strange barrel harmonics (vibrations, waving, etc) that can effect extreme accuracy/long distance style shooting. But we are talking about fractions of inches depending on what distance you are talking about. Semi-auto sniper rigs can work just fine within some range/purpose envelopes.
But for all of that...we are talking about advantages for a specific type of shooting at specific ranges. For fighting with a weapon at ranges that are going to be relatively close (100-200 yards) and the goal is to hit a man sized target vs a precision single-shot, the accuracy of a semi-auto is just fine and the ability to place multiple rounds quickly can be a distinct advantage.
"Accuracy" can be a difficult concept for some people to grasp. I'm a trained, but far from "high speed" shooter and I can hit 6" steel targets at 100 yards from a standing position with a semi-auto M4.
But if you are talking about head shots at 200 yards or a hostage shot at 100, the type of accuracy you are talking about is somewhat different.
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Tgace
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Bolt actions (especially customized sniper rigs) usually have FAR more sensitive triggers.
Really. Would have thought it was the other way round. Thanks for the info.
Danny T
Senior Master
What are you using the weapon for will be the major deciding factor in auto over bolt action. Autos tend to have a loser tolerance in the mechanism for metal expansion due to the rapid fire rates and lack of time for cooling.
Bolt actions chamber pressure can be higher allowing for greater bullet weight and/or muzzle velocity. Longer target ranges and impact force.
Trigger tension can be adjusted but is not a simple operation for most. On good firearms the trigger pull is usually in the 4-6 pound range giving good trigger feel and control.
The full auto is designed such that if you pull the trigger the weapon will continue to fire until it is complete of ammo. Many are now designed as a burst auto. One pull of the trigger will present a rapid 3 round burst. The trigger will have to be released and pulled again for another burst. More like a semi-auto where the round is auto chambered but the trigger must be pulled for every shot.
Bolt actions chamber pressure can be higher allowing for greater bullet weight and/or muzzle velocity. Longer target ranges and impact force.
Trigger tension can be adjusted but is not a simple operation for most. On good firearms the trigger pull is usually in the 4-6 pound range giving good trigger feel and control.
The full auto is designed such that if you pull the trigger the weapon will continue to fire until it is complete of ammo. Many are now designed as a burst auto. One pull of the trigger will present a rapid 3 round burst. The trigger will have to be released and pulled again for another burst. More like a semi-auto where the round is auto chambered but the trigger must be pulled for every shot.
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When you mention autos do you mean semi autos or full autos? A shooter will be able to fire shots faster with a semi auto than with the bolt action where you have to work the bolt in between each shot, but its still not like the full automatic with the firing rate. So if anything, the full auto would heat up the most due to its really fast rate of fire. When you mention chamber pressure is that bolt action vs full auto or bolt action vs semi auto as well? If the bolt action is able to take higher chamber pressure than both the semi auto and the full auto than a bolt action would be something more suited to large and dangerous game hunting although for combat use the semi auto would be better. Actually the full automatic would be ideal for combat use but they're really hard to get, from what I know to get a full automatic firearm you've got to get this special license that takes a long time to get and is very expensive and I might be wrong but I believe you also have to provide an adequate reason why you're getting it. You're also registered with the federal government as owning such a weapon. So most of us will probably have to limit ourselves to semi autos and bolt actions.
As for rifles that can be fired in 3 round bursts but not more than that, I wasn't aware they had those, I wonder what kind of regulations they fall under.
Danny T
Senior Master
The M16-A2 is a select fire weapon with full auto, semi-auto, or 3 round burst auto and was accepted for use by the US marine corp in 1983 and the US army in 86. Has been around and still in use for the past 30 plus years.
The civilian model the AR 15 is semi-auto only.
The civilian model the AR 15 is semi-auto only.
Just as revolvers are far less sensitive to variations in bullet weight and powder loadings than semi autos(meaning you can use, for example everything from 110 grain .38 specials to 200 grain .357 magnums in the same gun without any issues, and without having to recalibrate anything), bolt action rifles can in general also use a much wider range of bullets and loadings than semi autos without any trouble, as YOU are what is powering the mechanism, instead of gas/recoil. This makes for far more versatility as a hunting weapon, as you can use anything from very underpowered amunition for small game or for use with a silencer, all the way up to very powerfull rounds capable of taking down bears and such, in the same .30-06 rifle, even from the same magazine if needed. Bolt actions are also less complicated than semi autos, meaning there are far less that can go wrong in general, and generally lighter(if everything else is equal of course). The obious advantage for semi autos is firepower, i.e. the amount of lead that can be sent downrange, however, some bolt manipulation techniques such as what is used in the Norwegian competition format "stangskyting" (Stang shooting), named after colonel Georg Stang (1858-1907), facilitates quite speedy shooting with bolt actions.
If you want to see how this competition format works, where there is also competitors from the norwegian home guard competing with their semi auto AG3-rifles against civilians with bolt actions, there is several years worth of archive footage from Norwegian competitions(unfortunately only with norwegian comentaries, but it shouldn't be too hard to follow) at the website of the TV channel NRK. The Stang Shooting competition format were originally designed as a way to give the population shooting skills that is very applicable to use in war, as a way to strengthen Norway's defense ability against foreign invasion.
Interesting. Some geezer painted his rifle Red. Noticed stickers too. Are they sponsored?
Some of them are.
That does look a lot of fun. I guess your neighbors would have a similar thing to the the Stang Shooting comp. Would have thought Finland would. Going on what happened a few decades ago.
A Barret .50 can be either? Is that right.
Tgace
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Yes...and some bolt action guns have high-cap magazines too. Rarely 20-30 rounders, but easier to reload.
Many snipers prefer guns without magazines protruding from the gun because they can get lower to the ground in prone without them.
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I think Stang Shooting competitions is also held in Denmark and Sweeden, but don't know about Finland.
One of my FB friends is a Dane. They like their guns it would appear.
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