Black Belt joining as White Belt

Discussion in 'Jujutsu / Judo' started by SgtMagic, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes. This ^^^^.
     
  2. pgsmith

    pgsmith Master of Arts

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    Welcome to the madhouse!
    Here is my two cent's worth ... just go and train. Let your instructor know that you have prior experience, but try and ignore it as much as possible. Don't try and "show" them anything, don't think to yourself (or worse say it out loud) "that's not how I learned it", try not to think "I could do that better". Just listen and try to do what you're taught to the best of your abilities.

    I've learned three different Japanese sword arts, and started each one as a rank beginner. Your prior experience will make you easier to teach (for which your instructor will be grateful!) but try and ignore it unless you are specifically asked if your prior training did something different.

    Good luck, and have fun!
     
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  3. SgtMagic

    SgtMagic White Belt

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    Hi pgsmith,

    That is exactly what I am going to do. Learn their ways. Only one Sensei knows that I am a black belt. when I get on the mat I will not let the other white belt know my background.

    I do understand that my current rank is part of my mindset and the love I have for Combat Jujitsu. I look forward to start my Journey with them.

    Thanks for your comments PgSmith
     
  4. marques

    marques Master Black Belt

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    When I start thinking "I could do that better" it is the moment to move away...
     
  5. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I enjoy starting a new art as a white belt. It takes the pressure off. If I do something well because of my prior training, then I look really good for a white belt. If I do something all wrong, it's only to be expected.
     
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  6. Justin Chang

    Justin Chang Orange Belt

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    I belonged to a school in the past where if you were a black belt from another style or you were a junior black belt advancing to the adult classes they would give you a red belt (which was not a standard color in the art) until they could evaluate where you belonged in their ranking system.

    I personally prefer no belts because I believe everyone has something they can offer and we can learn from and it helps people to leave their ego at the door which isn't always easy to do in Martial Arts.
     
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  7. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master of Arts

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    Here's a joke:

    How many karateka (insert your own art here) does it take to change a light bulb?

    100.

    1 to do it, and 99 to complain: "That's not how I was shown how to do it."

    Being a good white belt is more important in the sense that you have a higher level of humility due to a lack of subject knowledge.

    Empty your cup, accept a posture of humility and you will pursue excellence.

    I have done Korean Karate for a good long minute. I even ran a few schools in my art.

    Recently, I actually put on a white belt and started in okinawan karate. I know a great deal about the forms I am doing.

    However, like facets on a diamond, I am gaining new dimensions in understanding
    In what I already knew.

    I could puff up with what I already know (or think I know) or I can empty myself of myself.

    I am presented with strings of new data (principles, methods, techniques, tactics, biomechanics etc), and I could be missing a lot of what's before my eyes in the Now, if I am in class and regurgitating what I learned in the past.

    Become a blank slate. And after you get back to about the same ranking, learn how to find a state of harmony & Syn-thesis.
    (I don't mean like fake)

    A Simple Definition of synthesis by Merriam-Webster
    • : something that is made by combining different things (such as ideas, styles, etc.)
     
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  8. marques

    marques Master Black Belt

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    So you gain understanding, and for sure you like learning and training for starting a new style from 'white'. But as fighter (if it matters to you) do you feel you are improving (or will improve?) Will it not just create conflictual options? :)

    I trained a long time under the same organization, and I heard often 'Karate is this, Judo is that'. And then I tried a few thing and I could confirm, or not, the clichés. And it is fun. But as a fighter, besides knowing better the 'opponent', I don't see much improvement. I will keep using what I master and everything else will take 10 years to have a major relevance... so I try just to continue from (or keep) what I have.

    What is your fundamental motivation for re-starting? :)
     
  9. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

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    When you say traditional jujutsu what ryuha is it? There really isn't to many traditional koryu jujutsu schools in Florida, I am from Florida(Miami) so I would be interested to know what classic Japanese jujutsu you are going to. You can pm me if you need to be.
     
  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Traditional doesn't always mean koryu, though it might.
     
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  11. msmitht

    msmitht 2nd Black Belt

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    Go and adhere to the new schools policy. After a while they will either see your skills as a blessing or a hindrance. If their techniques vary then a good teacher will make adjustments in how you apply/move/ off balance/fall/etc.
    No matter what it will be a new experience
     
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  12. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master of Arts

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    Deeper perspective, additional material, different bunkai, additional power generation, also Okinawa’s "Te" seizing, throwing, sweeping. Alternate ranging, and stance heights from Japanese Shotokan and Korean TSD.

    A lot of the same and a lot of different things.

    No, not really conflictual. Just new tools in the tool box, and new uses for the existing ones.

    Part of it, is learning how to retain all the muscle memory, while also building new neuromuscular paths and then expressing your will.

    Think of it like adding more colors to choose on your pallet.

    Yes, it can definitely help you as a fighter, as long as you can actually drill down and acquire the some of skill sets presented
     
  13. marques

    marques Master Black Belt

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    Adding new tools I find quite easy. A drill may be enough. But the toolbox does not change overnight (no room/organization for everything). Finally, all my 'concerns' are just a matter of (training) time. :)
     
  14. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    In your JJ do you spar? If so, which rank in your new school will you spar as? As a black downgraded to white belt, you will be too advanced to spar with other 'actual' white belt no?? x
     
  15. pgsmith

    pgsmith Master of Arts

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    Hey Jenna,
    Not trying to put words in the mouth of the OP, but in my limited sparring experience, it is much easier for a less experienced practitioner to spar with someone of more experience than vice versa. White belts tend to not know how to moderate their techniques when sparring, so you have to be very much on guard against a less experienced sparring partner. It is very much the same in two person kumitachi in the sword arts that I practice.
     
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  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    We often say the two most dangerous people are the white belt (no control) and the brown belt (trying to prove they're ready for black).
     
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  17. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    Ah yes of course that make perfect sense thank you Paul :) and but then so he is been asked to wear white though he is really higher level then who should he spar with such that it is to benefit of each partner?? Is confusing for my brain haha.. :D
     
  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Everybody should spar everybody in an equal and honest manner.
     
  19. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    I honestly wonder about the whole "sparring against brand new students is dangerous" mentality.

    If it's dangerous for the beginner, then isn't that a problem with the more experienced student controlling him/herself? The more advanced student should be looking out for the beginner and not turning him/her into a punching bag.

    If it's dangerous for the more advanced student, what have they learned? To only defend against experienced dojo fighters? Let's be serious here, if a brand new student with zero previous training hurts an experienced student, what sort of training is going on? What do you think someone with zero training is going to do to them "on the street?"

    Accidents happen, but beyond that, I'm just dumbfounded.
     
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  20. marques

    marques Master Black Belt

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    @JR 137 good point. I will give an example of that (or two).

    I trained long time under the training rules of "vision" and low speed. Then beginners went fast and I was just seeing. :) When I was the beginner in a Judo school, I was the 'most dangerous there'. Then I discovered that I was doing plenty of not allowed techniques (ground game) because just a very where allowed, in fact.

    Beginners don't follow training rules (and may not be so beginners - just unknown skill level).

    But from a (truly?) martial perspective there is no excuse. The experienced is experienced AND knows will be attacked. The clothes are the ideal... often is only one and attacking from the front side at a distance... often known (kind of) attack... Very much simplified, already.

    But you know, for safety purposes (or other) one put too many rules and then doesn't know what to do outside that conditions...
     

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