Bjj Belt Progression

[Ybot]

So are you saying that BJ didnt deserve his belt. BJJ is based on skill. Yes you have to put the time in, but if you progress quickly its because you have the skill to do so.

LOL, no. I was making the point that these guys have been at it for years, working as professional fighters too. I was responding to the way I interpreted your original post:

[quote="Kembudo-Kai Kempoka"]In short, the problem for guys getting it fast is that they will always be looked at sideways by guys who put their time into a longer road. 10 to 14 years was average then. How do you suppose a 14 year BJJ black belt is going to regard a 5 year BJJ black belt? Like a purple promoted too soon.

Makes me think of guys like Joe Stevenson, Jake Shields, GSP...etc etc etc.

They may be good in their own rights, but did they truly earn that Black belt? Hmmm, one will never know.:soapbox:[/quote]

Perhaps I misunderstood, but it seemed like you were questioning their qualifications based on their time in training. I pointed out that I knew at least Jake has been at his training for a long time. What I said about BJ Penn was to reference a guy who got a black belt fast, but got a legit black belt fast. I was not questioning his black belt, because I know it's legit, I was just pointing out that those guys that you pointed out have been at it for years.

 

[SA_BJJ]

LOL, no. I was making the point that these guys have been at it for years, working as professional fighters too. I was responding to the way I interpreted your original post:



Perhaps I misunderstood, but it seemed like you were questioning their qualifications based on their time in training. I pointed out that I knew at least Jake has been at his training for a long time. What I said about BJ Penn was to reference a guy who got a black belt fast, but got a legit black belt fast. I was not questioning his black belt, because I know it's legit, I was just pointing out that those guys that you pointed out have been at it for years.

I got you...misunderstanding...my bad.

 

[LordOfWu]

Great thread! I'm a fair newbie to bjj, just been training about 7 months...and one of the reasons I love it is because I'm not a super athletic guy. One thing I think I hear in almost every class is "leverage and technique over size and strength" and I truly get to see it in action!

I don't know enough to challenge anyone from anywhere at a higher level than me and second guess if they earned it...but I know that when I was looking for a school I wanted one that ran under either the Gracie or Machado banner, and meant it. When I get a promotion, I want it to mean something, I want to know that it took sweat, blood and tears to get it. If someone else wants/needs regular promotions to keep motivated (and I know people like that and I like them) then perhaps bjj is not for you, IMHO.

 

[suicide]

no sacrfice no succes :whip1:

 

[Aikicomp]

With what you've said, it seems to me that bjj has the highest belt standards of any martial arts sytem I know of.

Almost, Our Style of Ju-Jitsu (Gen Lee -consisting of Karate, Judo, Savate and Aikido) on average takes 5-10 years to earn Shodan. We also have high standards. Total we have under 50 Shodans and only 5 Godans. Hell, it took me 10 years. But, I'm a slow learner. LOL

Michael

 

[Steve]

Great thread! I'm a fair newbie to bjj, just been training about 7 months...and one of the reasons I love it is because I'm not a super athletic guy. One thing I think I hear in almost every class is "leverage and technique over size and strength" and I truly get to see it in action!

I don't know enough to challenge anyone from anywhere at a higher level than me and second guess if they earned it...but I know that when I was looking for a school I wanted one that ran under either the Gracie or Machado banner, and meant it. When I get a promotion, I want it to mean something, I want to know that it took sweat, blood and tears to get it. If someone else wants/needs regular promotions to keep motivated (and I know people like that and I like them) then perhaps bjj is not for you, IMHO.

I'm sure you've found a great school. I just want to point out that there are a ton of great BJJ schools not run by the Machados or the Gracies. It's like wearing designer jeans... sure they look good and are well made, but you're also paying a premium for the name. You can get good instruction from non-Gracie/Machado schools, too. And many people do.

Lotus club, Alliance, Brasa and American Top Team among many others are great clubs with a terrific reputation. Just be smart and do what anyone would do. Check the instructor out, look at the students, ask where he trained and who his instructors are, how long he's trained in BJJ and then check out a class to see if the personality and structure of the school appeal to you.

Almost, Our Style of Ju-Jitsu (Gen Lee -consisting of Karate, Judo, Savate and Aikido) on average takes 5-10 years to earn Shodan. We also have high standards. Total we have under 50 Shodans and only 5 Godans. Hell, it took me 10 years. But, I'm a slow learner. LOL

Michael

Is there a website for this? I googled it and didn't come up with anything. I think high standards are great, but maintaining those high standards over time as a style grows in size and popularity is a problem. I've started seeing BJJ McDojos pop up here and there. Very sad, but inevitable, I guess.

I'm a slow learner to, for what that's worth. I completely understand. But I'm on the Ed O Niell track. Took him 14 years to get his Black Belt.
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[LordOfWu]

I'm sure you've found a great school. I just want to point out that there are a ton of great BJJ schools not run by the Machados or the Gracies. It's like wearing designer jeans... sure they look good and are well made, but you're also paying a premium for the name. You can get good instruction from non-Gracie/Machado schools, too. And many people do.

Lotus club, Alliance, Brasa and American Top Team among many others are great clubs with a terrific reputation. Just be smart and do what anyone would do. Check the instructor out, look at the students, ask where he trained and who his instructors are, how long he's trained in BJJ and then check out a class to see if the personality and structure of the school appeal to you.

I am sure there are a lot of good schools that are not under the Gracies or Machados (and I think there may be a slight confusion, my school is affiliated with the Machados, but our head instructor is Dave Ruiz). I based my decision on the fact that I didn't know anything about bjj to make a really well informed decision so I went with the "can't really go wrong here" approach. As I've read in this thread, there are apparently schools out there with those particular names that aren't necessarily up to the expected standards either, so I probably just got lucky.

Anyway, thanks for the reply, and I completely agree on the other criteria and those certainly drove the choice among the Gracie/Machado affiliated schools that I looked at.

I appreciate the open discussions I am seeing so far in this forum, truly.

 

[Nolerama]

I rolled with a guy from another area gym the other day. My gym is geared towards MMA, but we LOVE rolling. So it was a breath of fresh air to see a guy who's all about jits, and be able to communicate that on the mat.

I've seen guys from other disciplines walk in and try to establish a pecking order, but we're MMA guys, so we just tell them to spar/roll and see for themselves. They'll figure it out.

The camaraderie between all the BJJ and sub-grappling folks I've come across is awesome. Every place that's been gracious enough to have me has be nothing but welcoming and interested in rolling with a new person. I don't like to place a stereotype on practitioners for a MA, but I would have to say that it takes a high level of enthusiasm to keep rolling; which makes for a very jovial art amongst its practitioners, IMO.

 

[Steve]

I am sure there are a lot of good schools that are not under the Gracies or Machados (and I think there may be a slight confusion, my school is affiliated with the Machados, but our head instructor is Dave Ruiz). I based my decision on the fact that I didn't know anything about bjj to make a really well informed decision so I went with the "can't really go wrong here" approach. As I've read in this thread, there are apparently schools out there with those particular names that aren't necessarily up to the expected standards either, so I probably just got lucky.

Anyway, thanks for the reply, and I completely agree on the other criteria and those certainly drove the choice among the Gracie/Machado affiliated schools that I looked at.

I appreciate the open discussions I am seeing so far in this forum, truly.

Oh, hey! I'm not criticizing your choice of school. I was just pointing out that there are a lot of great BJJ schools and organizations. I'm sure your school is fine.

Nolerama, I've found that there's a good sense of humor, too. I don't know why, but every time I get together with a bunch of grapplers there's a lot of lowbrow humor and laughing, usually at ourselves.

 

[LordOfWu]

Oh, hey! I'm not criticizing your choice of school. I was just pointing out that there are a lot of great BJJ schools and organizations. I'm sure your school is fine.

Nolerama, I've found that there's a good sense of humor, too. I don't know why, but every time I get together with a bunch of grapplers there's a lot of lowbrow humor and laughing, usually at ourselves.

Certainly no offense taken on my side, just wanted to clarify my thought process...

And I agree also, I think when you engage in very personal, physical, one on one competition like grappling, you gain a bond and sense of comfort around each other that might take much longer with someone in a simple friendship situation.

 

[Aikicomp]

Is there a website for this? I googled it and didn't come up with anything.

If you googled our style you may find a style named Shinriryu Goshinjutsu. This is not the original Gen Lee Ju-Jitsu as taught by my teacher Nick.

I think high standards are great, but maintaining those high standards over time as a style grows in size and popularity is a problem.

I understand that first hand, we had a student who made blue belt (first rank) and when my friend got sick and could not teach he went out, bought a black belt and opened his own school..he lasted about 6 months before his students realized he was a tool and had no idea what he was doing. Thank God that died an ugly death. I'm just glad that my teacher wasn't alive to see that.

I've started seeing BJJ McDojos pop up here and there. Very sad, but inevitable, I guess.

Yup, all of a sudden everyone knows Ju-Jitsu and grappling. Indeed very sad.

No website, sorry. I have to try to do something about that. I am happy right now teaching privately to students who want to learn and not having the financial responsibility of trying to run a buisiness along with work and family.


Michael

 

[matt.m]

It is a combination of things that make a BJJ black belt. I have crazy respect for those who train for the love of training. I have done Judo etc. for a long time. I am only recently a certified dan not withstanding the shodan I earned in Judo while in the Marines for competition. I didn't get Dan certified in Judo by the USJA until 2006. I have recently been certified dan level in BJJ. I have been doing mat work for a little over 20 years. I have competed, competed, and competed some more. I have been an instructor in Judo or Wrestling in some fashion for many years.

However, my favorite students are the ones that just want to train and get better.

 

[msmitht]

As a practitioner of martial arts for 31 years, the last 6 1/2 in BJJ, I can honestly say that it is both time on the mat and skill level. I have seen blue belts work over purple and brown belts because they understand the techniques better. They will not be promoted any faster, at least not in our school, but they are technically superior. I have also seen college level wrestlers give black belts a hard time during their first class.
I think I am where I should be at purple belt. I am a little slow and my teacher tells me that I think too much and act too little.
The point is that everyone is different and some people just get there faster.
Some also decide to cheat the system and they know who they are.
2. BJ penn was the 1st non brazillian Black belt to win at the mundials so dont diss him.
1. St. Pierre is a Gracie Barra Black belt practicing for more than 12 years. Carlos Gracie Jr. (Head of Gracie Barra) Has never promoted anyone to Black belt b4 their time nor have any of his Black belts.

 

[PurpleParham84]

My Experience

I got my blue belt in 11 months from a Gracie black belt and a Machado black belt. Competed in a handleful of tournaments as a white belt, which helped out alot.

Spent 3 years as blue belt.

Promoted to Purple this summer.

It all depends on instructor, and all depends on you.

 

[TheArtofDave]

I'm with a school that is affiliated with the Roy Dean Academy. I've only been training for 3 months. The guys in my class are white belts too, but they've got a month or 2 ahead of me. The blue belt requirement there is one year. But I think in their system they implement a green belt after blue. I've read that some schools do this since there is a high level of advancement in BJJ it helps some schools round out the progression. Which I understand.

As far as progression I'm a realist. I want to earn my black belt. 10, 11, 12, or whatever. I could go 16, then want to spend an extra year to made sure I earned it. But my instructor knows best & he tells me I'm right where I need to be in learning. I've started rolling. I get owned a lot, but I still love it. The more I do it the more I'll find my way through it.

So I don't know how long the belt progression will be for me but different schools have different progression time limits.

There are always going to be McSomething's out there. But we've just got to make sure that we don't let the Mcsomethings out that affect us. Keeping the same high level of standards & respect in our training. & Should we get to the point where we are the teachers we definitely carry on the same high standards we progressed through.

Love conversation though. It gives me great insight to keep up my motivation. I love BJJ. I am very dedicated to it.

 

[BloodMoney]

With what you've said, it seems to me that bjj has the highest belt standards of any martial arts sytem I know of.

I would agree

Especially the schools I am affiliated with, they take AGES to hand out belts lol. But, as my instructor said, he wants a white belt from our school to clean up all the other white belts around etc, he doesnt want any 'fake" belts...he wants them to really be worth something and mean something.

A rough guide you should be able to dominate most people of equal belt before you move onto the next. 10 years for a black belt sounds a bit right, I would say even longer with some schools (like ours). Makes sense seeing as theres only 5 belts in BJJ (as opposed to some Karates etc where there seems like a million of them). Some schools use stripes but we dont, just white-blue-purple-brown-black thats it

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I would agree

Especially the schools I am affiliated with, they take AGES to hand out belts lol. But, as my instructor said, he wants a white belt from our school to clean up all the other white belts around etc, he doesnt want any 'fake" belts...he wants them to really be worth something and mean something.

A rough guide you should be able to dominate most people of equal belt before you move onto the next. 10 years for a black belt sounds a bit right, I would say even longer with some schools (like ours). Makes sense seeing as theres only 5 belts in BJJ (as opposed to some Karates etc where there seems like a million of them). Some schools use stripes but we dont, just white-blue-purple-brown-black thats it

Four what it is worth I like how your instructor thinks. (forget all the stripes)

 

[TheArtofDave]

There are stripes but you test for them. And by what I'm seeing from our instructor you've got to earn your stripes. I believe its 4 stripes on the white belt before you test for blue. I think I've got that right. If not I will ask when I go back after thanksgiving break.