LOL, no. I was making the point that these guys have been at it for years, working as professional fighters too. I was responding to the way I interpreted your original post: Makes me think of guys like Joe Stevenson, Jake Shields, GSP...etc etc etc. They may be good in their own rights, but did they truly earn that Black belt? Hmmm, one will never know.:soapbox:[/quote] Perhaps I misunderstood, but it seemed like you were questioning their qualifications based on their time in training. I pointed out that I knew at least Jake has been at his training for a long time. What I said about BJ Penn was to reference a guy who got a black belt fast, but got a legit black belt fast. I was not questioning his black belt, because I know it's legit, I was just pointing out that those guys that you pointed out have been at it for years.