Belt Rank Progress

[Daniel Sullivan]

I'm simply reading what he typed in response to your post, which is this:

MA training is hardly college. Its a hobby for a majority of people. Nothing more no matter how much you want to believe your a human weapon. BUT if you keep training and not worry about the rank well guess what the rank will come on its own in due time regardless

Its a hobby for some people, and than there's those who want to make a career out of it.

This . . .

Except he said he wanted black belt by 20 so he could start earning a living teaching.

. . . is an assumption on your part, which may or may not be accurate, but not what he actually said, and which requires extrapolation on your part. I find it best to respond to what people actually say rather than what I assume that they mean.

In this instance, he has no stated time parameter on when he expected to begin teaching, and as I said, first degree black belt is not an instructor's degree in most styles, so regardless of his age, he would not become an instructor immediately upon earning shodan/ildan/chodan/whatever his organization calls it.

Now, having said all that, I'm still curious as to how not simply having the belt, but having the belt specifically by the age of twenty fits into a specific life goal (which he has alluded to but not openly stated).

 

[PhotonGuy]

I wish.

Unless by "magical" and "whole new level" you mean, "we now expect more from you and you have more responsibilities around the Dojo."
Kirk

Well yes there's that, but aside from that, and perhaps more importantly, you expect more out of yourself. At least that's my experience. That's what I mean by taking your training to a whole new level. As many martial artists will say, making black belt is just the beginning and it means you're ready to learn the real stuff.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Not to mention that he still hasn't explained the importance of having the belt by twenty to the life goal in question.

There are many reasons to that and for me to get into them all would be very complicated but for now, lets just say that making the rank of black belt was something I wanted to do when I was still a teenager.

 

[PhotonGuy]

And speaking of people who don't think rank is important, in some ways rank IS important. For instance, the military uses rank and in the military rank is very important. With most jobs there's rank. Corporations and so forth use rank. And when I talk about the importance of the black belt, I am not talking so much about the physical piece of cloth, Im talking about the rank. Some people give the impression that they don't understand that that's what Im talking about. If rank isn't important you can tell that to people in the military, that they should just serve and not be concerned with rank. The impression that some people on this board give is that they're taking the position that anybody who is obsessed with rank in the military can go buy some General's Stars off the internet for a few dollars. I would like to point out that just because a person has some General's Stars doesn't make them a real General. In the same way, just because a person has the physical black belt doesn't mean they've made the rank.

 

[Balrog]

Yes you're absolutely right. I should've asked and the fact of the matter was that I didn't and that was my fault. This is one of the points I've been trying to make all along, that students need to ask their teachers about what they need to do to advance in whatever field of study the teacher is teaching, and the martial arts are no exception.

I agree, up to a point. The teacher bears a responsibility to keep the student on track as well. Communication is two-way. If one of my students had his time in rank and all other requirements completed, but wasn't going to test, I'd be talking to them about it to find out why. If they felt that they wanted to wait, no problem. But I think it's my responsibility to stay in sync with my students.

 

[ballen0351]

And speaking of people who don't think rank is important, in some ways rank IS important. For instance, the military uses rank and in the military rank is very important. With most jobs there's rank. Corporations and so forth use rank. And when I talk about the importance of the black belt, I am not talking so much about the physical piece of cloth, Im talking about the rank. Some people give the impression that they don't understand that that's what Im talking about. If rank isn't important you can tell that to people in the military, that they should just serve and not be concerned with rank. The impression that some people on this board give is that they're taking the position that anybody who is obsessed with rank in the military can go buy some General's Stars off the internet for a few dollars. I would like to point out that just because a person has some General's Stars doesn't make them a real General. In the same way, just because a person has the physical black belt doesn't mean they've made the rank.

Dude your martial arts class you go to a few hours a week is far from being in the military. However when I was in the military I didnt care about rank other then it was a pay raise and I wouldnt have to do the crappy work details.

What does the "Rank" of black belt represent to you?

 

[dancingalone]

I think getting your first BB is important to an extent, if only because OTHER people tend to assign importance overly to it. Don't believe me? Go to an open tournament or an open seminar wearing a brown belt and you'll be amazed by how much overlooking and/or condescension you will see from higher ranked people who SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

I sympathize with the OP if he feels his life could have been different if he had earned his BB by 20. I'm not sure I totally understand his perspective as someone who got his own in his teens, but it's clear that he feels sincerely this is the case. As a teacher and a school owner, I do encourage students to promote when they are ready because for most achieving a higher martial rank is a positive event if only for the good feelings it can bring, even if they never become teachers in their own right.

 

[PhotonGuy]

PhotonGuy has already stated that he believed there was a sort of unstated rule that you had to wait for Sensei's special blessing to test. Add to that the somewhat bizarre pseudo-mystical reverence that general Western society has given to the oriental concept of martial arts Sensei, and I can see why someone might believe that it would be rude or something to directly ask the instructor. Sort of an odd convergence of "Dude, if you're Catholic, you don't question the Pope" and "if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it."

Well, it's pretty well established by now that "ruined my life" was a bit of hyperbole and actually more closely represents "I'm incredibly frustrated by the whole situation, cheezed off by the 'don't ask' attitude of the Dojo, and aggravated at myself for just blindly accepting it." However, I've decided, instead, to believe that the true cause of the upset is that, in order to aid him in achieving his goal, his girlfriend decided to cut him off until he made black belt. Can you imagine a >2 year "dry spell"???

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Of all the people on this board, I must say its Ikiawson who got it right about the point Im trying to make. I do think its ridiculous how it could be considered rude or disrespectful to ask a sensei what you need to do to make it to the next belt level. After all, its not rude or disrespectful to ask a teacher in school what you need to do to get an A so it shouldn't be rude or disrespectful to ask your sensei what you need to do to get to the next belt, including the black belt. If anything, it would be smart to ask your sensei just so you would know if he has to tell you that you can test or if you sign up at your own discretion as its done at my dojo.
And no I did not have a girlfriend who dumped me because I didn't make black belt. If you ask me such a girlfriend would not be worth going with in the first place.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Of all the people on this board, I must say its Ikiawson who got it right about the point Im trying to make. I do think its ridiculous how it could be considered rude or disrespectful to ask a sensei what you need to do to make it to the next belt level. After all, its not rude or disrespectful to ask a teacher in school what you need to do to get an A so it shouldn't be rude or disrespectful to ask your sensei what you need to do to get to the next belt, including the black belt. If anything, it would be smart to ask your sensei just so you would know if he has to tell you that you can test or if you sign up at your own discretion as its done at my dojo.

You keep beating this poor defenseless strawman. I don't think anybody ever, at any time, suggested it was somehow wrong to talk to your instructors.
The idea that the students decides when they're ready, rather than the instructors, is no doubt a great aid to the schools profit margin, though.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

There are many reasons to that and for me to get into them all would be very complicated but for now, lets just say that making the rank of black belt was something I wanted to do when I was still a teenager.

You had said that you had a life goal that was dependent upon it. If you don't wish to share it, that is fine, but was having the black belt specifically by twenty a necessity to the achieving of that goal?

 

[PhotonGuy]

You keep beating this poor defenseless strawman. I don't think anybody ever, at any time, suggested it was somehow wrong to talk to your instructors.
The idea that the students decides when they're ready, rather than the instructors, is no doubt a great aid to the schools profit margin, though.

I like beating poor defenseless strawmen, and besides, its how I vent.

 

[PhotonGuy]

You had said that you had a life goal that was dependent upon it. If you don't wish to share it, that is fine, but was having the black belt specifically by twenty a necessity to the achieving of that goal?

Well yes, this one goal I had required me to get a black belt before the age of 20 or shortly thereafter. But aside from that, I was more or less "self programmed" to want to get a black belt before I turned 20.

 

[ballen0351]

Well yes, this one goal I had required me to get a black belt before the age of 20 or shortly thereafter. But aside from that, I was more or less "self programmed" to want to get a black belt before I turned 20.

How old are you now? And do you still train?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Well yes, this one goal I had required me to get a black belt before the age of 20 or shortly thereafter.

I am very curious as to what life goal would have this requirement.

But aside from that, I was more or less "self programmed" to want to get a black belt before I turned 20.

Starting at
the age of twelve, that was not an unreasonable goal.

 

[Dirty Dog]

People keep asking this. He keeps avoiding answering. I'm about convinced he's enjoying the attention too much to actually answer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

 

[PhotonGuy]

How old are you now? And do you still train?

I turn 38 this Christmas and now I am training harder than ever.

 

[PhotonGuy]

People keep asking this. He keeps avoiding answering. I'm about convinced he's enjoying the attention too much to actually answer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

What question do I keep avoiding?

 

[PhotonGuy]

I would also like to say anybody who wants to come visit my dojo, if you have the time and inclination feel free to do so. Its located in New Jersey and I put the website up early on this thread. If anybody wants to see the website without looking through early posts in this thread I will post it again. If anybody is in or near New Jersey it would be great to meet you.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

What question do I keep avoiding?

This one:

he still hasn't explained the importance of having the belt by twenty to the life goal in question.

You've been asked by more than one person what kind of goal required you to not only have a black belt, but to have it by the age of twenty. You've said that this is in addition to self programming or a simply personal goal. You seemed to indicate that it was more of career oriented goal.

So instead of dancing around it, what is it?

I respect your wishes if you do not wish to share, but on the other hand, you've used this unstated event to underpin parts of your thesis which you've posted on a public forum. Thus people will ask. Continuing to alude to it without sharing it could give some the impression that you're enjoying the attention.

 

[ballen0351]

I turn 38 this Christmas and now I am training harder than ever.

Wait your still upset by something that happened 18 years ago? Did you quit after you didn't get your black belt?