Belt fees/Promotion fees

[Druid11]

The problem of a one size fits all students, is that gifted and talented individuals who truely learn the curriculum faster suffer emotionally and can walk away because of a ranking system that doesn't flex.

Keeping the gifted challenged is an instructor's silent nightmare.

My instructor said something in one of my classes that stuck in my head, "There are two times things are really enjoyable, when something is new and when you gain a degree of mastery. The trick is to get through the period in the middle."

Depending on how you view martial arts (are they just a physical activity or something more), I would say that period in the middle is the most important. It's the time when you say, "Maybe I'll skip going to class today." And you have to decide if you'll listen to that voice or go to class anyway. So I would say making students wait a certain amount of time before testing or learning new material is actually a way to teach students to grow. They have to learn to self-motivate and get through the boring bits. The instructor can guide them, but it's really up to them to do it for themselves.

So yes some students will walk away if they are made to wait X amount of time before testing, but the ones that stick it out and push through the middle part will be rewarded with not only advancement in martial arts but also in personal emotional growth. YMMV but I think it's usually the "gifted" students that often times need to learn how to self- motivate the most (because things come easy to them) and probably most benefit from being made to wait. So I don't really see any problem with a hard rule about how much time there must be between testing, especially between higher ranks.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

What does your school charge for belt/exam fees?

If a new belt is awarded, $10 for the belt. No fee for testing for promotion, no fee if there is no new actual belt awarded (for example, brown has three degrees, black has ten).

And how many ranks in your school/system?

Different for adults and children. Adult system:

White
Orange
Green
Blue
Brown (3 degrees)
Black (10 degrees)

Kids' system is similar, except there is a gold belt between white and orange, and stripes on the belts up to brown.

We get asked this a lot. I'm never sure why. I always feel like I'm walking into a trap by answering. May I ask, why do you want to know?

 

[JP3]

My instructor said something in one of my classes that stuck in my head, "There are two times things are really enjoyable, when something is new and when you gain a degree of mastery. The trick is to get through the period in the middle."

Depending on how you view martial arts (are they just a physical activity or something more), I would say that period in the middle is the most important. It's the time when you say, "Maybe I'll skip going to class today." And you have to decide if you'll listen to that voice or go to class anyway. So I would say making students wait a certain amount of time before testing or learning new material is actually a way to teach students to grow. They have to learn to self-motivate and get through the boring bits. The instructor can guide them, but it's really up to them to do it for themselves.

So yes some students will walk away if they are made to wait X amount of time before testing, but the ones that stick it out and push through the middle part will be rewarded with not only advancement in martial arts but also in personal emotional growth. YMMV but I think it's usually the "gifted" students that often times need to learn how to self- motivate the most (because things come easy to them) and probably most benefit from being made to wait. So I don't really see any problem with a hard rule about how much time there must be between testing, especially between higher ranks.

I've been on all sides of this problem, I think. In TKD I was the gifted/talended athelete who could run fast, jump high, dance on a fence pole, lift heavy stuff, etc. So, TKD came easily to me. It was (at the rank I was at) simple, straightforward and mainly the learning of new muscle and coordination skills.

And... then came judo.

All that stuff that made me naturally talented at TKD actually operated against me in Judo, as I'd very often violate my principles and just go back to "Mongo Toss!" No good. I had to spend a significant amount of time unlearning things so that I could actually make progress. Thing was, I did learn it, and when I transitioned into the Tomiki aikido, it was a seamless fit, just moving a bit farther away (i.e. leaving the grappling clinch for.. call it boxing distance or a bit farther away). I needed to be kept down, but to your point, I wasn't a G&T at judo, quite the opposite. In the TKD I got to accelerated test a couple of times, and in the end I wasn't sure that I should have been as my body was not yet where it "should have been" to intake the new skillsets of the new rank.

In my own school, I usually use this approach. "OK, this here is what you need to demo to get your next rank, but since you know how to dance that, sort of, for today we'll go ahead and work on this other thing." The other thing might be advanced, or it might have no relationship to the other things int he curriculum, maybe just something I experienced at a seminar. I'm not a wizard, I don't know what's going to connect with people, so I just offer it up, and if they like it then awesome. But, on the back side I also tell them. "You're doing good for X rank, but I'm not looking at you as if you are X rank. I'm looking for much more than that, since I can tell it is there. I think you can, too. So don't expect to just float past. I see more, so I am expecting more. If I don't get more, you'll probably not pass." So far, the challenge has worked every time. The student shifts into "I'll show him. I'm going to simply perfect the [what'sit], and then he'll have to acknowledge it."

And, if they do... I do. It works for me.

But, remember, in my place there is a lat of laughter and people having fun. A judo frine of mine who is also a physical ed teacher and doctorate told me once that if the student is happy and engaged, more than 5 times the learning can take place. So, I have changed that idea into my own concept, "Laughing is where learning happens," and I try to keep things in that vein. It's an interesting dichotomy when where talking about back positions that sever the spinal cord, I grant you...

 

[TSDTexan]

If a new belt is awarded, $10 for the belt. No fee for testing for promotion, no fee if there is no new actual belt awarded (for example, brown has three degrees, black has ten).

I just wanted to sound out the waters of the MT community, and see the lay of the land as it were.

It helps my perspective.



Different for adults and children. Adult system:

White
Orange
Green
Blue
Brown (3 degrees)
Black (10 degrees)

Kids' system is similar, except there is a gold belt between white and orange, and stripes on the belts up to brown.

We get asked this a lot. I'm never sure why. I always feel like I'm walking into a trap by answering. May I ask, why do you want to know?

 

[JP3]

If a new belt is awarded, $10 for the belt. No fee for testing for promotion, no fee if there is no new actual belt awarded (for example, brown has three degrees, black has ten).



Different for adults and children. Adult system:

White
Orange
Green
Blue
Brown (3 degrees)
Black (10 degrees)

Kids' system is similar, except there is a gold belt between white and orange, and stripes on the belts up to brown.

We get asked this a lot. I'm never sure why. I always feel like I'm walking into a trap by answering. May I ask, why do you want to know?

I think it's a standard question one instructor would ask of another for an economically feasible position, if the school is foreseen as an income center for such instructor. Mine isn't, for me. For some strange reason, I've bought the belt for every single student I've ever promoted, my gift to them. Their gift to me is their time day after day, week after week, after all.

My tomiki system is like the above, white, green, 3 browns and then black for 10 degrees. Nobody in our organization is a 10th dan, as at this point they just aren't old enough assuming they stay on the mat and are healthy enough.

 

[TSDTexan]

I've been on all sides of this problem, I think. In TKD I was the gifted/talended athelete who could run fast, jump high, dance on a fence pole, lift heavy stuff, etc. So, TKD came easily to me. It was (at the rank I was at) simple, straightforward and mainly the learning of new muscle and coordination skills.

And... then came judo.

All that stuff that made me naturally talented at TKD actually operated against me in Judo, as I'd very often violate my principles and just go back to "Mongo Toss!" No good. I had to spend a significant amount of time unlearning things so that I could actually make progress. Thing was, I did learn it, and when I transitioned into the Tomiki aikido, it was a seamless fit, just moving a bit farther away (i.e. leaving the grappling clinch for.. call it boxing distance or a bit farther away). I needed to be kept down, but to your point, I wasn't a G&T at judo, quite the opposite. In the TKD I got to accelerated test a couple of times, and in the end I wasn't sure that I should have been as my body was not yet where it "should have been" to intake the new skillsets of the new rank.

In my own school, I usually use this approach. "OK, this here is what you need to demo to get your next rank, but since you know how to dance that, sort of, for today we'll go ahead and work on this other thing." The other thing might be advanced, or it might have no relationship to the other things int he curriculum, maybe just something I experienced at a seminar. I'm not a wizard, I don't know what's going to connect with people, so I just offer it up, and if they like it then awesome. But, on the back side I also tell them. "You're doing good for X rank, but I'm not looking at you as if you are X rank. I'm looking for much more than that, since I can tell it is there. I think you can, too. So don't expect to just float past. I see more, so I am expecting more. If I don't get more, you'll probably not pass." So far, the challenge has worked every time. The student shifts into "I'll show him. I'm going to simply perfect the [what'sit], and then he'll have to acknowledge it."

And, if they do... I do. It works for me.

But, remember, in my place there is a lat of laughter and people having fun. A judo frine of mine who is also a physical ed teacher and doctorate told me once that if the student is happy and engaged, more than 5 times the learning can take place. So, I have changed that idea into my own concept, "Laughing is where learning happens," and I try to keep things in that vein. It's an interesting dichotomy when where talking about back positions that sever the spinal cord, I grant you...

Some day I would love to come by and randori, sound like a blast.

 

[JP3]

Some day I would love to come by and randori, sound like a blast.

Careful with that... Usually I take advantage of people who show up. I make them teach something from what they do or their favorite thing or whatever.

It's a ploy, of course. That way I don't ever have to worry about getting my a$$ whupped in front of my people. I can almost always dream up enough lines of inquiry and questions about stuff to use up all 2 hours, and "Wow, look at the time. I'm hungry. Let's get a beer."

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Careful with that... Usually I take advantage of people who show up. I make them teach something from what they do or their favorite thing or whatever.

It's a ploy, of course. That way I don't ever have to worry about getting my a$$ whupped in front of my people. I can almost always dream up enough lines of inquiry and questions about stuff to use up all 2 hours, and "Wow, look at the time. I'm hungry. Let's get a beer."

I would completely fall for that ploy, JP.

 

[chevalierzachary]

My blackbelt test after i broke a brick with a knifehand cost me 250 dollars i am 1st dan in tae kwon do since 2004 i just tried other arts

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

 

[Buka]

I never paid for a belt test. Subsequently, I never charged for one, other than the five bucks for the belt - except brown and black. Couldn't very well charge anyone who put in that much work, and put up with the likes of me for that long.

But as I recently stated, if I test you for black now - it's a jillion dollars. Cash money, small bills.

 

[JP3]

I would completely fall for that ploy, JP.

Oh, I know. For that particular ploy you are low-hanging fruit as it's apparent we think along similar lines. The one to try to actually talk rather than just putting me to the test is probably Drop.

 

[msmitht]

When I was working for Korean GM in 90's he charged 55 for a stripe test and there were 3 stripes per belt, 8 belts before black. So 220 per belt total. When I was running my own I charged 20 per belt test with kkw fee at poom/Dan.
In BJJ we do not charge for a promotion. Some schools have a test. We test every day on the mat.

 

[PhotonGuy]

We do "test" for 10th geup, but there is no fee. After passing the test for 10th geup, students are allowed to buy and wear a dobak and white belt.
Our testing fees start at $42 for 9th geup and go up to $62 for 1st.
The cost of new belts, rank certificates, and breaking materials comes out of these fees.
Chodanbo is $75.
1st Dan is $300 for Moo Duk Kwan and $400 for Kukkiwon.
The fees cover the embroidered belt (and no, they're not $5), rank certificate, framing of the certificate, breaking materials, and bringing Masters in to serve as simsakwan.
The extra $100 for the KKW covers the KKW registration fee.

I thought you once said that you consider charging fees for promotion to be milking students out of more money.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I thought you once said that you consider charging fees for promotion to be milking students out of more money.

You've got a history of thinking a lot of weird, unsupportable things.