Being overweight, judging overweight, judging others generally...

[Flea]

I think a lot of the fat bigotry problem comes from the way that Westerners tend to link food with morality. Anything that tastes delicious is "sinful," for instance. If one truly believes that certain foods and eating patterns are more morally acceptable than others, then that belief would logically extend to (what one would assume are) the physical effects of certain eating behaviors.

Of course, reality has very little to do with these "logical extensions." Google the term "thinspiration" and you'll see what I mean. *shudder* If you want to equate food with morality in a coherent way, consider distribution issues - we have the technology (sort of) to feed everyone in the world a basic diet, but can't get it from "here" to where it's needed most in an effective way. Now there's a moral food issue that demands attention. But you can't pin that one on the fatties either; if we can't get our act together to ship vast quantities of rice and cornmeal to the starving, I don't think Little Debbie is going to figure it out either.

Most of the Morality arguments I've heard to the detriment of the overweight don't really hold up under examination. Are they upping your health insurance premiums? What about skinny people who get cancer? Don't find them attractive? Beauty is subjective, and they didn't ask your opinion anyway (personally, voluptuous women drive me wild. :ladysman There are so many valid issues to discuss, moral and otherwise, that I'm always disappointed to see this one come up. It seems to be a popular horse to beat for whatever reason. Can't we all find something else to do?

 

[searcher]

Here is my only irritation with obese people(and I am not like Omar). As a trainer, I have the responsibility to help people get in shape andto keep them safe while they are in the gym. Those who are obese, run a much higher risk of injury or heart attack then the average healthy person. Why is this important? Becasue if they get hurt or have a heart attack, I have the responsibility to work on them until EMS gets there. I have had to work on people before and it is not pleasent. Now, I am not saying that obese people need to stay away from the gym, I just wish people would start working towards a more healthy end.

I am not disgusted by "fat" people. I just wish that people would get a clue and get some help.

One thing to add here. The BMI chart is so flawed it is crazy. Arnold S. was considered obese when he won Mr. Olympia. Thought I would share.

 

[Omar B]

Here is my only irritation with obese people(and I am not like Omar). .

I find that hilarious. I don't like the obese so I'm now a pariah, awesome.

 

[Omar B]

Ah. Now I get it.

A month or so ago, right after I joined MT, I happened to post some photos from my Flickr account here. Right after that, someone with a freebie account on Flickr decided to make some really offensive comments on my wife's photos. I deleted the comments, banned the person from posting again, and they popped back up a day later, only from another free Flickr account. I eventually had to turn off the ability to make comments on my photos completely just to get the anonymous person from making the most horrible statements about my wife.

And the strange thing is, Omar, he used the same words you just did. The very same words.

People use the same word patterns over and over again, Omar. They don't typically change. So I'm going to ask you politely - this is not an accusation, because I haven't any evidence - were you the person who made those awful comments? I would like to know.

Not me man, I was in New Delhi at my grandmother's deathbed. Nice of you to think of me though.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Not me man, I was in New Delhi at my grandmother's deathbed. Nice of you to think of me though.

Fair enough, I take you at your word. Sorry to hear of your grandmother's passing, my sincere condolences.

 

[Omar B]

Thanks, but it's not needed, we saw it coming for years. If post records were available here it would show that on till about 3 weeks ago I have not even been on this site since last summer. Traveling, working.

Feel free to accuse me of anything else guys. My dislike for the obese opens the door for all kinds accusations.

 

[Cryozombie]

Feel free to accuse me of anything else guys. My dislike for the obese opens the door for all kinds accusations.

Ok. You probably smell like cheese and have random bits of lint in your belly button.

 

[Archangel M]

All you have to do is look at advertisements on TV, Magazines, in the movies, thin model (body type) is almost exclusively what is being sold. Heaven help you if you don't fit the mold, what ever that is. Then you have to listen to some dumb a## explain that you are too fat therefore unworthy. The thin model (body type) is a fallacy. They are the ones that are abnormal. They want us to feel bad about ourselves so that we won't realize it.

The thin model stereo type and its fall out has probably done more harm than good. Young people >men and women> 6, 7, and 8 year olds that are running around on diets trying to live up the the hype that for most of us is unattainable anyway. How many young people have developed life threatening eating disorders or have died to buy into the supper skinny hype.

Thats all well and good, but what is the larger health issue here in the US? Obesity or malnourishment? What is the cause of most health problems in our society? You dont need a study or statistics to know, just look around.

Im not interested in belittling people and my opinions on "judging" really dont apply to bodyweight. I just object to the knee jerk "you shouldnt judge" response to any and all issues. My concern is for peoples health. You may be "happy" the way you are, but keep in mind how unhappy others will be if you go to an early grave because you dont want to change your lifestyle. I have lost loved ones way to soon due to heart disease and smoking. Living your life based on what makes YOU happy is selfish IMO.

I also think that there are multiple facets on this "judgementalism" issue. Some people unfairly judge others based on appearance while others throw down the "you are judgemental" card to divert the issue at hand away from themselves.

 

[Jade Tigress]

ATTENTION ALL USERS

This thread is taking the same direction as the thread it was split from. Please keep the conversation at a mature and respectful level and refrain from offensive comments.

Continuing to disregard Martial Talk posting policies will result in escalated action and we could wind up with one, or both, of these threads locked in addition to any individual actions that may be warranted.

Thank you,
Pamela Piszczek
MT Super Moderator

 

[Ronin74]

People who have problems, and people who have problems with people who have problems... a nice productive circle.

If a someone's lifestyle is not attractive to another, so what? Unless it has anything to do with that person directly, it's really none of their business. If John or Jane Doe likes to have hearty meals, and really has no concern over how it affects their health, the only other people who might be allowed a say are the relativs (if any) who'd have to care for them. If they don't have an issue, then it's really nobody else's concern. The same goes for anyone else with a lifestyle different than our own.

As for physical appearances, I'm a shorter-than average guy and I have been incredibly overweight, and I've been bullied for both since elementary, and I can tell you it's a big f****n' waste of time and energy to care what the next person thinks. If they want to be insulting, let them be- ignore them.

Sure words can hurt, but if we're REALLY LEARNING martial arts, shouldn't our resolve be as strong as our bodies? If we're learning to let go of past technical habits, shouldn't we be learning about letting go of hurt pride and damaged egos?

 

[BrandonLucas]

All of this backs up what I said in my previous post...it all comes down to tact.

Omar doesn't like fat people.

The rest of the people here apparently don't like Omar, because of the way he says that he doesn't like fat people.

Let's let it go. I'm sure we all have better things to do than to hurl fat rocks at eachother.

 

[Archangel M]

I think that there is a huge difference between looking at an overweight person and being concerned for their health or being concerned over the health and size of the average American and looking at an overweight person and not liking THEM, or treating them unkindly. Fat or thin, everybody deserves respect and consideration until their behavior/actions deem otherwise.

 

[Archangel M]

As an aside. I have sat through union meetings about health care and contracts and insurance agents have stated that there is a direct correlation between the expanding Amarican waistline and its associated medical issues and skyrocketing health care costs.

 

[Carol]

As an aside. I have sat through union meetings about health care and contracts and insurance agents have stated that there is a direct correlation between the expanding Amarican waistline and its associated medical issues and skyrocketing health care costs.

Now that a problem has been identified, is there a solution?

 

[Makalakumu]

Now that a problem has been identified, is there a solution?

That's a hard one. One argument says that as long as we subsidize the health care for people who make poor health decisions, then we will see the problem get worse and worse. However, if everyone had to pay their health coverage out of pocket, the "obesity problem" would clear it way up really quick.

Another argument states that through better education and more subsidization of health care costs we can create an overall healthier society. People will become less obese through the careful management of government and experts.

There are a bunch of other positions out there regarding solutions and several probably would work. It's really a matter of picking one and sticking with it. Public health problems don't change overnight.

 

[Omar B]

Omar, You are a shallow, selfish, egotistical, little boy that needs to grow up.

Shallow, yes, very.
Selfish, just about the most selfish person you've ever come across.
Egotistical, why yes. "If there's anything on this ship more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot right now"
Little boy, it's all how you look at it, I consider myself a youthful 28.

If you were aiming at a personal attack you've missed chicka. But I'm not sure how the Forum Lords would look upon that if you were successful.

 

[Cryozombie]

If you were aiming at a personal attack you've missed chicka.

Just so you know, My cheese and Belly Button Lint comment was meant as a joke.

 

[Ronin74]

That's a hard one. One argument says that as long as we subsidize the health care for people who make poor health decisions, then we will see the problem get worse and worse. However, if everyone had to pay their health coverage out of pocket, the "obesity problem" would clear it way up really quick.

Another argument states that through better education and more subsidization of health care costs we can create an overall healthier society. People will become less obese through the careful management of government and experts.

There are a bunch of other positions out there regarding solutions and several probably would work. It's really a matter of picking one and sticking with it. Public health problems don't change overnight.

I think another point worth adding to it is the underlying theme of people more or less being forced to make lifestyle changes that they may not want. I myself have relatives who could stand to make more healthier choices, but any effort that's been made with them usually results in butting heads. The argument is almost always, "make healthier choices" vs "let me live my life the way I want to".

Another thing to point out is if we did pick a solution (and I'm not saying we shouldn't- indecision is rarely a good thing), there's always the exceptions, and trying to set fair parameters on who qualifies.

On a sidenote, this really reminds me of the tip conversation from Reservoir Dogs... lol.

 

[Archangel M]

Now that a problem has been identified, is there a solution?

One option that comes to mind is increasing contributions based on lifestyle. Dont care about your weight or your smoking habit, then you pay more into health care than those who do. Participate in a program to show that you are taking action then that ammount will be reduced.

Of coures that doesnt address those who are not working. Or are participating in gvt. supplied medical care.

 

[Cryozombie]

I'm curious. Can someone actually show some hard numbers that prove that Overweight people cause our health premiums to go up a significant amount as opposed to those numbers not affected as much by things like Age, Pregnancies, etc?