Bear Hugs - Practical or Impractical

[hedgehogey]

Yup, and I was just replying to the guy who pretty much made a blanket statement that ALL street brawlers suck. Again, the topic is not about the UFC or what fights Tank lost/won, but instead to show that he was a guy that came into the ring with no MA background and gave a beating to many fighters. Sure, he may have lost, but many of those winners, looked pretty beat to me.

For sure, but tank has never beaten anyone good.

Regardless of if hes resisting, the fact remains that the slap caused damage to the ear.

Oh I don't doubt that. It's wether it works on a person fighting back that I doubt.

 

[MJS]

For sure, but tank has never beaten anyone good.

You're right, though he's come close. I think he would have had Don Frye if he didnt fall.

Oh I don't doubt that. It's wether it works on a person fighting back that I doubt.

Saying that makes it sound as if you're saying that ANY tech. done on a resisting opp. won't work. If you're doing a tech. against a punch, you make it sound that unless the person just stands there, the tech. is usless once he starts fighting back. Maybe I'm reading wrong, but thats the way it sounds to me. Could you clarify that statement for me??? In addition, could you give us some examples of how you would defend the bearhug?? What do you think works best/least, and why??? I'm interested in hearing your reply!

Mike

 

[loki09789]

MJS,

I am not sure since I haven't really followed up on this thread in a while, but I was wondering you had made a comment about "live training" in relation to the bearhug stuff.

 

[MJS]

MJS,

I am not sure since I haven't really followed up on this thread in a while, but I was wondering you had made a comment about "live training" in relation to the bearhug stuff.

Yes Sir I have. Post #19. I talk about that often because IMO its something that is very important and is something that is often overlooked. I try to apply that everytime I train. Even in my BJJ class. We'll cover a tech. such as an armbar. We start off doing it slow and then gradually add speed and resistance. It certainly makes a big difference.

Mike

 

[loki09789]

Yes Sir I have. Post #19. I talk about that often because IMO its something that is very important and is something that is often overlooked. I try to apply that everytime I train. Even in my BJJ class. We'll cover a tech. such as an armbar. We start off doing it slow and then gradually add speed and resistance. It certainly makes a big difference.

Mike

It is worth mentioning and doing on a regular basis. Gets you as close to real as you can reasonably get. I think without that type of component, it is near impossible to give students a chance to test adaptivity of techniques, creativity and tactical sense.

 

[MJS]

It is worth mentioning and doing on a regular basis. Gets you as close to real as you can reasonably get. I think without that type of component, it is near impossible to give students a chance to test adaptivity of techniques, creativity and tactical sense.

Very true! Granted, you may never be prepared for every situation, but at least by training real, you may stand a better chance.

Mike

 

[hkg]

Question is, what if any is the practical concept of still teaching people the static application defenses to a bear hug? Personally, I can't see any.......[/QUOTE]



Well for starters i would do my best not to get caught in a bear hug but if i did i would jst crazily kick, headbut even bite if there were other attackers around and i needed to be free quickly.

 

[hedgehogey]

Well for starters i would do my best not to get caught in a bear hug but if i did i would jst crazily kick, headbut even bite if there were other attackers around and i needed to be free quickly.

You're in for a rude awakening.

Saying that makes it sound as if you're saying that ANY tech. done on a resisting opp. won't work.

No, there are techniques that work on resisting opponents and techs that don't. That is the BASIS of effectiveness. If it does not work on a resisting opponent in training, it will not work when you're really attacked.

If you're doing a tech. against a punch, you make it sound that unless the person just stands there, the tech. is usless once he starts fighting back.

That depends entirely on the defense. If you're slipping a jab, that's an effective tech that can be worked immediately with resistance. If you're knife handing the attacking arm.

Maybe I'm reading wrong, but thats the way it sounds to me. Could you clarify that statement for me??? In addition, could you give us some examples of how you would defend the bearhug??

Well first of all, a "bearhug", as a grappler is probably what I would be putting my opponent in. With underhooks I can amplify my strength and deny him leverage. If I were underhooked, I would pummel my arms inside. Not all "bearhugs" are equal. Some give a big advantage, others none at all.

 

[RCastillo]

I think all situations need to be addressed. If not, we're not doing a good job as Instructors. :asian:

 

[hardheadjarhead]

No, there are techniques that work on resisting opponents and techs that don't. That is the BASIS of effectiveness. If it does not work on a resisting opponent in training, it will not work when you're really attacked.

With this caveat, perhaps: Not all techniques work all the time against everyone.

If we follow the above maxim that it has to work against a resisting opponent, then a technique with one percent effectiveness would qualify for admission to our bag of tricks. We all have anecdotes of a person who pulled off the most improbable technique and gotten away with it.


Regards,


Steve

 

[hkg]

You're in for a rude awakening.

I take ur point that i may be and i havnt been in that situation before but what would u say is the most effective way of dealin with it in general?

 

[Andrew Green]

Ok, I didn't read everything in here so bare with me

A rear bare hug - Being caught in one means you are in trouble.

First and foremost you have to keep yourself on the ground, preferably going right to the ground.

There is a basic throw where you drop and twist and bring your opponent down.

You can also look for a knee bar.

Pushing his hands down and trying to break the grip can work as well.

But the key thing is staying on the ground, either by going right to the ground or breaking his posture so he can't lift you.

Don't bother trying groin grabs cause you'll already be air bourne. Headbutts won't work if he is positioned right, nor elbows or any kind of strike. He has the advantage.

I've also seen grabbing the leg and using your butt as a folcrum to take him down. This is a good basic technique but it is easily countered by someone that knows what they are doing, all they got to do is hop in and under you and throw you over top of them.

It also depends on what kind of grip they have, they should have a C grip. If they are just grabbing a wrist you can stripe there grip fairly easily.

If you are getting lifted hook there legs with yours so they can't get much height on you, hopefully you'll end up on your feet, or with both falling and going to a scramble for position on the ground.

A good source would be western wrestling, a rear bodylock is a a strong position to get and defences and attacks should be covered in any video.

Remember that there are other things which will work on someone doing it improperly / poorly. These are good if that happens. But personally I'd prefer to overestimate then underestimate. Assume they know what they are doing and if it turns out they don't it just makes it that much easier.

 

[hedgehogey]

With this caveat, perhaps: Not all techniques work all the time against everyone.

If we follow the above maxim that it has to work against a resisting opponent, then a technique with one percent effectiveness would qualify for admission to our bag of tricks. We all have anecdotes of a person who pulled off the most improbable technique and gotten away with it.

I mean working every day on a resisting oponent in training. Anecdotes mean nothing.

 

[Disco]

I have let this thread run for awhile, so everybody can input. The photo's that Gaston listed (Thank you), actually say all there is to say. The second set shows trained fighters, in great shape, aware of whats going on, getting dumped on his head. Imagine that being done on the street (concrete - asphalt). Even giving the benefit of the doubt, that the fighter being dumped, allowed himself to go with the slam because the ring floor had some give to it, he was still taking a big chance on not being hurt or knocked out. Perhaps that was why there was no attempt to defend against what was happening, or in reality in that position there is no defense. Many who have taken the time to review and add their opinions, seem to be missing the point of this thread entirely, or perhaps it was because I didn't explain it enough. The object of discussion was a rear bear hug, done with hostile intentions. Front bear hugs have available defenses. Being grabbed from behind and slammed to the ground in less than 1.5 seconds (we actually stop watched it), left no viable reaction time. Granted, if the attacker stumbles with the technique, a window of opportunity does present itself, but it's very slight. The question was presented for a two fold reason. 1) How often does this bear hug come into play in real self defense actions? 2) And if and when it does, is there a real defense for the way the attack has been outlined? This is very simple and straight forward. Dosen't matter if arms are pinned or not. There are no variables involved.

Thanks to everybody who has already posted and to those that will post. :asian:

PS: Does anyone know what happened to the fighter that was slammed in the picture?