Bassai Dai - Martial Arts Rosetta Stone

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by mrt2, Mar 9, 2019.

  1. Never_A_Reflection

    Never_A_Reflection Blue Belt

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    Coming from the Okinawan karate perspective, I don't personally like the degree to which Kyokushin kata movements are exaggerated--as I see it, most of the movements in Okinawan kata are already somewhat exaggerated, so it just seems unnecessary, and starts to be less effective for some of the ways we use the kata. My biggest problem is honestly the shuto-mawashi-uke, though, because it is so fundamentally removed from the way the technique functions, and thus loses its broad-spectrum utility. If you can apply it against realistic attacks, under pressure, then it doesn't really matter so much, but I just don't find the big, circling version of Kyokushin to be as useful as the smaller, crossing version of most Okinawan styles--of course, I am admittedly biased.
     
  2. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    The shuto mawashi stow uke (no idea what the stow part means) is the one thing I don’t like. Kyokushin and the offshoots are the only ones I know of that do it. I guess it’s Oyama’s change to the “block.” It really never made sense to me from a bunkai perspective. I’d much rather do the regular shuto mawashi uke personally.

    As far as most other movements, while yes there’s a big visual difference, I don’t see much difference in the intent and at the heart of it. Different way to generate power, but the gross movements aren’t that far apart IMO.
     
  3. Never_A_Reflection

    Never_A_Reflection Blue Belt

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    Really depends what you're using the movements for--the further your limbs get from your body, the less strength and stability they have. For striking, that doesn't matter so much. For grappling methods, though...
     
  4. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Very much agree with all of this. :):):)
     
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  5. mrt2

    mrt2 Purple Belt

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    I didn't say Rosetta Stone of Karate. I said Rosetta Stone of martial arts.
     
  6. Never_A_Reflection

    Never_A_Reflection Blue Belt

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    Then I would say it is even further from a Rosetta Stone--that goes back to something like Seisan, or perhaps Sanchin, since there are extant examples of it in styles outside of Okinawa
     
  7. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    How so?
     
  8. mrt2

    mrt2 Purple Belt

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    Because I never studied Karate. I studied Tang Soo Do and Bassai was part of the Tang Soo Do Curicullum.
     
  9. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Ok but when you call it a Rosetta stone of martial arts, do you include all of the Chinese and Indonesian and Thai and Philippine and all other systems that do not include this form, or even any forms in some cases?

    Seems to me that context is pretty important to this particular discussion.
     
  10. mrt2

    mrt2 Purple Belt

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    All I was saying was, you have a form that connects Chinese, Okinawan, Japanese and Korean martial arts. And unlike a lot of the forms currently practiced today, Bassai is actually pretty old. And that strikes me as interesting.
     
  11. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    It is interesting. Keep in mind, if it does connect Chinese systems (I don’t know one way or the other) then it is a very very limited group. By far, most Chinese systems do not practice a variant of it.
     

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