Basics of Hapkido

[Mike-IHF]

Mr. Miller,

Sounds pretty similar to us. We have a 24 basic technique set, and everything stems from that set. These are all from punching attacks, we have other basic sets regarding wrist grabbing techniques. But as far as punching the basic set is 24.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Michael:

I started to move in this direction over on AJ Net regarding this approach to "Ai-Ki" material and I am wondering what your thoughts would be if I told you that I think such an approach would put your training at a disadvantage.

What I am finding is that so very often the "ai-ki" side of the arts tend to focus on a set of discrete techniques of a given number with the view being to use that set number of techniques in as many response scenerios as possible. The more facile a person is with applying those set teachiques to the broadest range circumstances the more competent a person is considered to be.

By comparison on the "ki-ai" or "yawara" side of the house, a broader range of techniques is taught by identifying a particular response to a particular situation. Some techniques turn up a number of times while others are very specific to a very specific circumstance. For myself I find that starting with a wider range of techniques and through experience trimming down to my particular "tried&true" techniques works better for me than learning a dozen or so variations of the same technique. WEach student I have is likewise exposed to all of the techniques and through experience tends to develop a handful of techniques that work for them.

Since you and I may have different views of how we learn/teach would you want to share the advantages of the approach you use as you see them? Thoughts? Comments?

 

[American HKD]

You are correct!! And to me, they are seperate styles, and i think they should be treated as such. To me C.H. is more of a cross training system geared for striking stylest's who wan't to add some joint locking, etc. Into what they do, without getting into the whole art. They also do beginner to intermediate, Trapping, Arnis, BJJ, etc. So a person can get a taste and go get advanced training in these arts if they wish. Personally the cross training in these other arts is what attracted me to it, not the basic Hapkido. I do think that J.P. could have used a different name for his system though.

Mithios

( Sung Moo Kwan )

Thank for the info.

That's exactly what I was trying to find out from the other guy.

Also I realize CH is not really Hapkido and GM JP holds no master rank in HKD as far as I know, however his rank is strickly a CH rank recognized by the Kido Hae and that a big difference to keep in mind.

 

[American HKD]

Stuart,

When GM Lim teaches a seminar he will focus on a certain set of basic techniques and it depends on at what level one is at as to what you will learn. GM Lim will teach more advanced techniques and variations but only if the person has a good grasp on basics no matter what rank one holds!

I love working on basic material because everything stems from the first 15 techniques in Jungki Hapkido. :asian:

Thabks that sounds right.

I tell my students the basics are everything

 

[American HKD]

Eh, we speak up. But not much into rank or lineage debates. Prefer the kenpo boards myself. And seeing the response to us when we do bring stuff up...oi. Much rather just train

Greetings

You have to be a little thick skinned to deal my all the opinions that come out of these forums, but most of us are all decent guys.

Trying to be clear and precise in what you write helps

 

[Mike-IHF]

Bruce,

I see your point. I will try and explain how our basic set works, so bare with me. The first 12 techniques, from what I have seen are pretty much the same as most other Hapkido schools. With the exception of our number 5 might be your number 2, but in essence the same technique. However the first 24 we do from straight punches, mainly just because we are here in the U.S, and straight punches are the most pridominant attacks. By this the first 12 techniques are kind of mixed. Our numbers 1,2,3,4, and 6 are all done with an evasive stepping back type of evasion, and turning that into more of the Ki Ai type of execution. These are done in what we call closed stance. Now 5, 7,8,9,10,11, and 12 are all done from an open stance where we use the spinning type of evasion and execute more of the Ai Ki type of techniques. By doing this we feel that the student learns both stances, and evasions for the straight punching attacks. Meaning that the student will feel confortable standing at a bus stop, either in closed, or open stance. So if they are attcked they know that what ever stance they happen to be in, they can execute any one of the basic 12 technique set. Now the second set of 12, are all done from the spinning evasion, and use more of the Ai Ki type of technique. However the second set of twelve go into more of the different application of the same techniques from the first set of twelve. For example- our Kote Gaeshi, is our number 5. In the first twelve set it is done from the spinning evasion and we use both hands to control the wrist to execute the throw. In the second set the spinning is a little tighter and faster(because by this time the student, has a good bases on how to do the spinning) then from there we use one hand to control the wrist, and the other on the face sliding back behind the ear, and into push the head in the same direction we our going with the wrist. Full circle wholness. I have found by myself learning this way, and now teaching it this way, the student gets a pretty complete aray from the first 24 techniques, and feel confortable in bot stances. Thoughts?

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Michael:

I understand what you have shared. Within the context of the steps you have outlined is this a closed system of information? What I mean by this is, are the next stages that follow this introductory material built ON this material or taught separately as a "next part of a sequence" TO the introductory material. Put another way I would give the following example.

In the example of the Outer Wrist Throw, having been introduced to that at the introductory level and shown execution with alternate footwork, does the technique continue to be cultivated? Or, having been familiarized with that technique one moves on to other techniques and only returns to the OWT as the source of occasional varietal information. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Mike-IHF]

Bruce,

I would have to say the first, rather than the later. Usually after the basic 24, or around the same time of learning the basic 24 we will teach the same techniques from different situations. Being 24 same side wrist grabs of the same 24 teachniques, cross hand wrist grabs of the same 24 techniques, knife defense of the same 24, sword defense from the same 24, and kick defense from the same 24. Actually kick defense is only 12 cause we only have 12 kicks. After these 24 techniques are learned from all of these attacks, then we move on to learning other more advanced techniques, or what we start getting into the Hapkisul, type of techniques. I hope that helps clarify, if not let me know. Thanks.

Also I forgot to mention, along with these I listed we also learn the same 24 techniques from, hook punches, striking down attacks, outside circle, inside circle etc. then as I said we move on. So total we have a basic set of, let;'s see. about 132 techniques as a basic set.

 

[glad2bhere]

Thanks, Mike. Now we're getting somewhere!

Let me take this two steps farther--- one step in each of two directions


I am assuming that the original 24 teachnique you spoke of are accomplished using, effectively, yu-sool approach. This is to say that the techniques' execution relies on Physics more than anything else. At the next stage, when you start with Hapkiyusool, are the same 24 techniques executed albeit with a focus on impinging on the neuro-muscular system, or is this a completely new set of techniques including a differeing emphasis on execution?

The other step I would ask about is the addition of ancillary information. For instance, if a person wants to pursue more sword techniques even offense AND defensive are the sword defenses the time to do this or is the sword handled in a separate area of the curriculum down the road? In like manner, I assume that you study what we call "positions of disadvantage". Were a person to want to add experience, technique or teaching approaches might it be added at that point? If not, where would this be added (if at all). Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Mike-IHF]

Bruce,

Your first instinct is exact. The first 24 techniques are more of the Yusul appraoach, and the later 24 being more Hapkiyoosool and focusing on the neuro muscular system.

Your second question, I'm having a hard time understanding. But regarding the sword. The sword is very important in our style, and we try to teach it along with the basic set. Reason being is all of our techniques come from the sword. So by doing the sword, along with the empty hand it gives the student a better understanding of not only why we learn the sword, but also a better understanding of the empty hand techniques. However even though sword is taught as part as the basic set, we don't get to far into the offensive, two man sword against sword attcks, until after 1st Dan. If that's what you mean. GM Chang teaches a little different in Korea, he does not let anyone touch a sword, or Jo until first Dan. His number one priority is teaching the basics, more than anything. Thanks

 

[glad2bhere]

Thanks, you hit it right on the head.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Mike-IHF]

Bruce,

GREAT! I'm glad I was able to answer your questions. Feel free to ask me anytime. Thanks.

 

[glad2bhere]

I was kind of anticipating that since the sources were already extant in the MT threads (somewhere, I guess) that we would have heard back from Brother Kevin regarding how "totally inaccurate" the earlier post was--- at least by now.

Good thing I didn't hold my breath.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Hollywood1340]

Still waiting here

 

[shesulsa]

Some of the discussion in Yet more discussion on Hapkido origins has been moved and integrated here chronologically. To discuss the origins please post to the other thread.

Enjoy.

 

[Jungki Hapkido]

Yes, in the Jungk Ki Kwan system, the basic techniques are very important.
Grandmaster Lim emphasizes this over and over again.
The basic 15 techniques are wrist escapes, wrist techniques, and uniform techniques. Learning these techniques from grabs first, helps the student to understand the mechanics of the technique. As the student progresses and grasps these mechanics, later they are instructed how to apply them from punches. Hapkido techniques are very intricate and being off by an inch or less sometimes warrants their effectiveness when executed. At times when I adjust my students' hand positions, they are amazed that the slightest movement makes such a difference in the power and execution of the technique. Repetition of the basics over and over is the essential key as Master Miller, Master Rosenberg, and many others have already stated.

Master Mike D'Aloia
Iron Eagle Hapkido
Korea Jungki Hapkido & Kuhapdo
www.jungkihapkidoamerica.com
www.jungkikwan.com

 

[howard]

Yes, in the Jungk Ki Kwan system, the basic techniques are very important.
Grandmaster Lim emphasizes this over and over again.
The basic 15 techniques are wrist escapes, wrist techniques, and uniform techniques. Learning these techniques from grabs first, helps the student to understand the mechanics of the technique. As the student progresses and grasps these mechanics, later they are instructed how to apply them from punches. Hapkido techniques are very intricate and being off by an inch or less sometimes warrants their effectiveness when executed. At times when I adjust my students' hand positions, they are amazed that the slightest movement makes such a difference in the power and execution of the technique. Repetition of the basics over and over is the essential key as Master Miller, Master Rosenberg, and many others have already stated.

Master Mike D'Aloia
Iron Eagle Hapkido
Korea Jungki Hapkido & Kuhapdo
www.jungkihapkidoamerica.com
www.jungkikwan.com

Absolutely.

Even after years of practicing the 15 techniques mentioned above, you can still find ways to improve them. And the comment about the slightest adjustments making a huge difference is right on the money... as one of Master D'Aloia's students, I have been amazed many times by what a difference these tiny adjustments and tweaks make in the effect of the techniques.

 

[Paul B]

Agreed..the devil is in the details. Just how basic do you get,though?


Do you break down footwork as a separate point alltogether or do you just include it in the technique? I've noticed that the majority of people (myself included) have a harder time with correct footwork than with what their hands and the rest of their body is doing.

I do break down footwork into different "exercises". I've noticed that once people get their feet down,the rest falls into place easier because they're in the right "spot" to execute their technique.

 

[howard]

...Just how basic do you get,though?

Do you break down footwork as a separate point alltogether or do you just include it in the technique? I've noticed that the majority of people (myself included) have a harder time with correct footwork than with what their hands and the rest of their body is doing.

I do break down footwork into different "exercises". I've noticed that once people get their feet down,the rest falls into place easier because they're in the right "spot" to execute their technique.

Paul, we treat footwork as an integral part of any complete technique. We focus a lot on proper footwork, since it's so important to the outcome of the technique, but we typically just treat it as one more of the total of elements in the technique, to be practiced together with the other elements and coordinated correctly with them.

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Do you break down footwork as a separate point alltogether or do you just include it in the technique? I've noticed that the majority of people (myself included) have a harder time with correct footwork than with what their hands and the rest of their body is doing.

I do break down footwork into different "exercises". I've noticed that once people get their feet down,the rest falls into place easier because they're in the right "spot" to execute their technique.

The interesting thing about proper footwork is that if you do not have the correct foot work your body will not be in the proper position to apply your hands in a position of strength & power.

GM Lim has always said that the basic techniques lay the proper foundation for the advanced techniques. The first 5 techniques are considered energy practice. This is helping the student to understand mechanics but even more important is the understanding of the energy relationship between them & their opponent.

The jungki Kwan videos show alot of this. :asian: www.millersmudo.com

Take care