Bare feet Vs Shoes

[Gerry Seymour]

I have fought guys while wearing suits. short and raincoats. Slippery shoes sneakers and bare feet. In belt kit,with gloves on. Pretty much everything.

We had this elastic tie thing that was supposed to protect while in a fight. Can't remember it ever stopping a face punch.

I could have used knee pads to be honest. That was my big issue. Holding a guy down for 20 minutes untill the cops turned up. Hell on the knees.

The only issue with shoes coming of is if I got hold of one of theirs I would throw it on a roof.

I never said it wasn't possible. I said it was a reasonable consideration. They change the situation. For some people, the change is (or seems, which is more important) insignificant. For others, it becomes a problem because of their "pocket techniques". I'd be affected only a little by a change in clothing/shoes. Folks who kick more or use larger movements might be affected more. My point is that experimenting with different combinations is an effective way to find out.

 

[VintageModMan]

I never said it wasn't possible. I said it was a reasonable consideration. They change the situation. For some people, the change is (or seems, which is more important) insignificant. For others, it becomes a problem because of their "pocket techniques". I'd be affected only a little by a change in clothing/shoes. Folks who kick more or use larger movements might be affected more. My point is that experimenting with different combinations is an effective way to find out.

I also believe its always good to train in different environments and situations. That's why sparring over just practicing Kata for years make a huge difference in real life application. Great discussions.

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[Langenschwert]

I love my vibram five fingers. I usually get a couple of years out of them, if not more. When I do normally barefoot arts outside, that's what I use.

For most training, I use New Balance Minimus. They're great because you get good grip and feeling of the floor, but they're normal enough that what you train in them works fine in everyday footwear.

I've used my VFFs in HEMA tournaments, but I'm leery of taking a shot to the foot in them.

 

[VintageModMan]

I love my vibram five fingers. I usually get a couple of years out of them, if not more. When I do normally barefoot arts outside, that's what I use.

For most training, I use New Balance Minimus. They're great because you get good grip and feeling of the floor, but they're normal enough that what you train in them works fine in everyday footwear.

I've used my VFFs in HEMA tournaments, but I'm leery of taking a shot to the foot in them.

Very cool to hear. I was wary of how long they would last and not a lot of places near me carry the vibram for me to try. 3 locations within 45 mins of me.

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[Langenschwert]

Very cool to hear. I was wary of how long they would last and not a lot of places near me carry the vibram for me to try. 3 locations within 45 mins of me.

Some have thinner soles than others depending on what you want. Slip the shoe on, seat the heel, and then wiggle in the toes. With practice, you'll be able to slip them on quickly toes first.

 

[jks9199]

Shoes are dirty. People say they never wear certain ones for training outside. I don't know that. They can track doo-doo onto the mat and now my face is on it, getting into my eyes, etc. Then there are the dirty people with athlete's foot, or stinky feet who should be wearing shoes. Those rubber shoes that look like feet are probably disgusting and makes your feet stink like crazy, true? I hardly see people wearing those anymore.

Are feet necessarily any cleaner? Athlete's foot and other fungi... sweat... whatever you may have stepped in along the way...



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[Tez3]

Are feet necessarily any cleaner? Athlete's foot and other fungi... sweat... whatever you may have stepped in along the way...



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Long, sharp toenails, dirty feet, hard skin on heels peeling off. Ugh

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I love my vibram five fingers. I usually get a couple of years out of them, if not more. When I do normally barefoot arts outside, that's what I use.

For most training, I use New Balance Minimus. They're great because you get good grip and feeling of the floor, but they're normal enough that what you train in them works fine in everyday footwear.

I've used my VFFs in HEMA tournaments, but I'm leery of taking a shot to the foot in them.

I think the Minimus is what I have, too. I need a new pair.

 

[JR 137]

Vibram Five Finger type shoes are like all other shoes. Depends...it comes down to the individual fit and comfort. The only way to know is to try them.
I have had several different types all feel different. The one thing I have been disappointed in is the length of time they last for me. 2-3 months and every pair I have used are done.

Not sure if you mean the vibram shoes only last 2-3 months, or if every pair of shoes only lasts 2-3 months.

There's only one type of sneaker I've tried that lasts me longer than 3 months - Nike Air Max. Expensive as hell at $190 a pair, but I usually find them at Nike Outlets for about $110. They typically last me about 1.5-2 years. So even at the $190 full price, they're cheaper than a bunch of $50 sneakers.

The only shoes that last me more than 3 months are Clarks Unstructured (with the heavier sole). They typically last me a little over a full school year (I'm a school teacher). I get those at the Clarks outlet for about $100 vs the $180 or so full price.

Any other shoes give me plantar fasciitis and quad pain and soreness after about 3 months. Just like jeans, pants, and dress shirts, it sucks that the only ones that fit me right are the expensive ones.

 

[JR 137]

If I ran my own dojo/organization, I'd have everyone train in wrestling sneakers. And they'd have to be dedicated to dojo use only, i.e. not worn anywhere else. Far too many foot conditions to go barefoot, and training with shoes is more realistic. Removing shoes indoors is a Japanese and Korean cultural thing. I respect it and understand why, but I don't agree with it. I train barefoot at the dojo because those are the rules. When my plantar fasciitis acts up, my CI allows me to wear my wrestling shoes. I just have to take them off during sparring.

 

[VintageModMan]

If I ran my own dojo/organization, I'd have everyone train in wrestling sneakers. And they'd have to be dedicated to dojo use only, i.e. not worn anywhere else. Far too many foot conditions to go barefoot, and training with shoes is more realistic. Removing shoes indoors is a Japanese and Korean cultural thing. I respect it and understand why, but I don't agree with it. I train barefoot at the dojo because those are the rules. When my plantar fasciitis acts up, my CI allows me to wear my wrestling shoes. I just have to take them off during sparring.

Fair enough. I don't doubt that. Foot conditions are unfortunate.

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[VintageModMan]

Not sure if you mean the vibram shoes only last 2-3 months, or if every pair of shoes only lasts 2-3 months.

There's only one type of sneaker I've tried that lasts me longer than 3 months - Nike Air Max. Expensive as hell at $190 a pair, but I usually find them at Nike Outlets for about $110. They typically last me about 1.5-2 years. So even at the $190 full price, they're cheaper than a bunch of $50 sneakers.

The only shoes that last me more than 3 months are Clarks Unstructured (with the heavier sole). They typically last me a little over a full school year (I'm a school teacher). I get those at the Clarks outlet for about $100 vs the $180 or so full price.

Any other shoes give me plantar fasciitis and quad pain and soreness after about 3 months. Just like jeans, pants, and dress shirts, it sucks that the only ones that fit me right are the expensive ones.

Yes the vibram shoes. I average 6-8 months on my shoes I walk fairly light though. Even if I walk a lot. I too have spent lots on expensive shoes. I have wide flat feet so its not uncommon for me to spend 100+ shoes however I try to avoid spending it often.

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[Gerry Seymour]

If I ran my own dojo/organization, I'd have everyone train in wrestling sneakers. And they'd have to be dedicated to dojo use only, i.e. not worn anywhere else. Far too many foot conditions to go barefoot, and training with shoes is more realistic. Removing shoes indoors is a Japanese and Korean cultural thing. I respect it and understand why, but I don't agree with it. I train barefoot at the dojo because those are the rules. When my plantar fasciitis acts up, my CI allows me to wear my wrestling shoes. I just have to take them off during sparring.

I've thought about that policy, too, JR. I just can't bring myself to do it, though. I've trained my whole life (over 35 years now) barefoot, except during some seminars and when doing personal practice at home. Even with my own foot issues, I just have an emotional attachment to a gi and no shoes.

 

[drop bear]

If I ran my own dojo/organization, I'd have everyone train in wrestling sneakers. And they'd have to be dedicated to dojo use only, i.e. not worn anywhere else. Far too many foot conditions to go barefoot, and training with shoes is more realistic. Removing shoes indoors is a Japanese and Korean cultural thing. I respect it and understand why, but I don't agree with it. I train barefoot at the dojo because those are the rules. When my plantar fasciitis acts up, my CI allows me to wear my wrestling shoes. I just have to take them off during sparring.

Do you think wrestling shoes would make much of a difference in sparring though?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Do you think wrestling shoes would make much of a difference in sparring though?

I would think it's partly a matter of others' toes having to deal with shoes. Maybe not, though. I wouldn't think something like a wrestling shoe would make kicks hurt any worse, except for glancing blows, which might have some minor scraping with a shoe.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

When training outside I wear my every day cross trainers. Nothing special as I certainly do not pay a lot for shoes.

When inside I train barefoot or wear wrestling shoes. I try to have a healthy mix of both because when at home I am almost always barefoot and when out and about I am wearing shoes.

 

[JR 137]

Do you think wrestling shoes would make much of a difference in sparring though?

Difference how? For the person wearing them or the opponent?

For me, it didn't make much difference. I got used to the difference in grip on the floor and weight within a few minutes once we started the kicking part of warmups. I always hit the heavy bag wearing running sneakers, and there's not much of a difference there either.

I take them off during sparring because that's my CI's rule. His house, his rules. I don't know how they'd fit under the foot pads we wear. And as Gerry mentioned, the biggest issue would probably be scrapping/burning someone's skin with the sole if they were to get hit with a glancing kick from a front kick or side kick. Maybe the point/toes would hurt more if they'd block on that spot with a forearm.

Realistically speaking, I don't think it would make much difference getting hit with me wearing them vs not wearing them. My CI probably feels like why take the chance of someone getting hurt in an unforeseen way that could've easily been prevented.

I don't wear them often; maybe 3-4 weeks total for the year. It's not like sparring for 20 minutes without them on is going to make or break my foot pain. If that was the case, I wouldn't be on the floor because it would be time to heal up instead of pushing it. During non-sparring stuff, they help a little bit. They're far from being properly supportive like my Nike Air Max shoes. But every little bit helps.

My main reason for having everyone wear them in my hypothetical organization is so people don't transmit stuff like athlete's foot, plantar warts, etc.

All I know for sure is I like training in my Asics Mat Flex shoes more than barefoot. They give me a little more support, are a little more realistic, and keep my feet from cramping up.

But there's the whole traditional white gi and barefoot thing that I like too.

 

[Blindside]

Do you think wrestling shoes would make much of a difference in sparring though?

I used wrestling shoes when I did kenpo. I could fit the foot sparring pads over them, the only time it mattered is on sidekicks, if you really stuck a good one you could leave a bruise with the heelprint of the wrestling shoe. If anything it diffused the impact compared to the heel.

These days I use a minimalist workout shoe, really doesn't impact anything.

 

[Dirty Dog]

We train barefoot in the dojang. It's our tradition, and it's easier on the mats.
That being said, I see value to training in footwear. It's rougher on BOB, but I do wear shoes from time to time at home. I do not practice forms in shoes, but my son and I will spar outside in normal clothing (which probably confuses the neighbors...) from time to time.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

So something I have always had trouble with is shoes. Per my genetics I have flat feet. It has been a nightmare to find shoes that work I spent a lot of time in Chuck taylors, skateboarding shoes and the like. At one point I was told by a doctor we need to build arches and for about 3 years I wore shoes with good arch support but never had a change in an arch and did my feet hurt! My feet remained flat. While I was training in Shorin Ryu the policy was no shoes (which at home and around the house is normal for me inside, outside doesn't matter its what I prefer.)

Now I know most MA styles train like this in my limited knowledge. So this got me thinking about real life application can I throw the same kick with accuracy with a shoe on? I personally cannot replicate it due to the extra weight and the non flexibility of my foot. Yes its a similar kick but for me not as effective and the chance of loosing my shoe is very possible.

So where this is leading is are there any barefoot type shoes you guys know of that really do feel barefoot? I know over the past few years there has been a craze over it. I have just never really looked into it much. I know there are vivobarefoot and vibram shoes just wondering what your opinions are on these shoes for street ware and comfort and in the of chance you found the opportunity to use a solid kick in a self defense situation? Also opinions on recommended shoes or reasons to dislike the shoes.

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I usually wear non-slip kitchen sneakers or basketball shoes, but moccasins or low ankle house slippers and light wrestling sneakers or savate kicking shoes work good too. I would say I probably train with my shoes on at least 75% of the time. The other 25% of the time I'm either barefoot or wearing socks. I'm also flat-footed, but it hasn't really caused me any pain when walking/kicking. I will never practice a toe-kick without shoes on, as the toe of the shoe itself is part of the weapon and also helps to protect my toes. I recommend you just stop trying to force your feet to arch, and just learn to practice kicking flat-footed. That's really all I can say. Hope you find what you're looking for.